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Introducing points system (EXP) and cross platform leaderboards

edwiitos

New Member
I enjoy the site as how it is now but if RA does change then two leaderboards would be fair for both sides instead of alienating the softcore players like RA did with there rule changes.
 

Givos

New Member
I love your EXP System and how it makes games comparable across all platforms.

But there are still possibilities to look for „spam games“ and try to get EXP pretty fast and easy:
Games that have only a few achievements and one or two that are really hard to get.

„Kitten Rampage“ is a good example: It has 12 Achievements and 2 that are unter 1%. But the first 6 Achievements are unlocked by 70% of the players, and will give you over 600 EXP easily. In games like "Halo Master Chief Collection" you would need to unlock around 60 achievements to get these EXP.

Wouldn’t it be a better idea to calculate the overall EXP a game has not just on the rarest achievement, but on the average unlock rate of all achievements of the game? I have the feeling that this way the EXP a game could give would be a little bit more balanced.

Also the values wouldn’t go into the extremes, because a game that has an average unlock rate of all achievements with unter 1% doesn’t make sense. So the Squareroot wouldn’t be needed anymore.

My Idea would be instead of using
(sqrt(100 / UNLOCK_PERCENTAGE) - 1) * 1000 + 50

Something like this:
(100/(Total Achievements Earned/(Players Tracked*AchievementsGameHas)*100)-1) * 1000 + 50
Or easier written:
(100 / Average Unlock percentage) - 1) * 1000 + 50

I’ve calculated this formula in a spreadsheet for several games and sure, it changes the EXP numbers quite a bit, but it seems to significantly reduce the number of these „easy EXP Achievements“ I mentioned first.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1I-b41yi8MSDnwXl7KTf-o3v2_sv-D03w6FDIV0-7j1Y/edit?usp=sharing

Also the real Spam Games are still worthless.
I also have a feeling that games with a massive amount of hard to get achievements would be uplifted a bit in comparison to „normal“ games, even if their overall EXP would be lower.
And also Cross Platform Titles come a little bit closer together, because the average achievement unlock rate cross platform is closer together than the difference between the rarest achievements. (see Red Dead Redemption 2 and Elden Ring for Example)

I don’t want to sound like I could do anything better. I just have put some thoughts into this and wanted to let you know. Maybe I've overseen something obvious.

Keep up the good work! Like your site!
 

yendihunt

New Member
I love your EXP System and how it makes games comparable across all platforms.

But there are still possibilities to look for „spam games“ and try to get EXP pretty fast and easy:
Games that have only a few achievements and one or two that are really hard to get.

„Kitten Rampage“ is a good example: It has 12 Achievements and 2 that are unter 1%. But the first 6 Achievements are unlocked by 70% of the players, and will give you over 600 EXP easily. In games like "Halo Master Chief Collection" you would need to unlock around 60 achievements to get these EXP.

Wouldn’t it be a better idea to calculate the overall EXP a game has not just on the rarest achievement, but on the average unlock rate of all achievements of the game? I have the feeling that this way the EXP a game could give would be a little bit more balanced.

Also the values wouldn’t go into the extremes, because a game that has an average unlock rate of all achievements with unter 1% doesn’t make sense. So the Squareroot wouldn’t be needed anymore.

My Idea would be instead of using
(sqrt(100 / UNLOCK_PERCENTAGE) - 1) * 1000 + 50

Something like this:
(100/(Total Achievements Earned/(Players Tracked*AchievementsGameHas)*100)-1) * 1000 + 50
Or easier written:
(100 / Average Unlock percentage) - 1) * 1000 + 50

I’ve calculated this formula in a spreadsheet for several games and sure, it changes the EXP numbers quite a bit, but it seems to significantly reduce the number of these „easy EXP Achievements“ I mentioned first.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1I-b41yi8MSDnwXl7KTf-o3v2_sv-D03w6FDIV0-7j1Y/edit?usp=sharing

Also the real Spam Games are still worthless.
I also have a feeling that games with a massive amount of hard to get achievements would be uplifted a bit in comparison to „normal“ games, even if their overall EXP would be lower.
And also Cross Platform Titles come a little bit closer together, because the average achievement unlock rate cross platform is closer together than the difference between the rarest achievements. (see Red Dead Redemption 2 and Elden Ring for Example)

I don’t want to sound like I could do anything better. I just have put some thoughts into this and wanted to let you know. Maybe I've overseen something obvious.

Keep up the good work! Like your site!
I agree with a rework, not so much with the formula. Players should not be penalized for playing "obscure" games in comparison to AAA mainstream when it comes to exp. That just reverses the current problem we have where hard achievements in less popular games are worthless. The current formula definitely needs some tweaking, but I think popularity of game shouldn't factor too much into it.
 
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TomWheeler

New Member
I'm not sure if this was mentioned or if this is even easily possible, but it would be nice of the EXP of each achievement calculated their score using the same achievements across all games from each platform where it exists when each same-titled game has the same achievements. That way the rarity value isn't skewed based on its platform ownership/attempts.

I'm just using this game as an example since I just bought it on GOG and noticed the EXP value of it compared to the other games.

View attachment 10639
+8784!
That's the ammound of EXP I don't get for playing Train Valley 2 on GOG. Would be very, very nice if someone could give this at least a liiiiittle fix.
1665659123149.png
 

freeGidna

Member
+8784!
That's the ammound of EXP I don't get for playing Train Valley 2 on GOG. Would be very, very nice if someone could give this at least a liiiiittle fix.
View attachment 12814
You are so funny. Read carefully what the EXP system is. There are only four people in the gog version, in steam 3600. To put it simply, if there were 10,000 people in the gog version and only you passed / received the most achievements, then the EXP level would be much higher (up to 49,999 EXP per game) .
 

TomWheeler

New Member
There are only four people in the gog version, in steam 3600. To put it simply, if there were 10,000 people in the gog version and only you passed / received the most achievements, then the EXP level would be much higher (up to 49,999 EXP per game) .
Oh yeah, the situation is like Steam is the Woolworth where capitalism addicts take any toy from a sale, play with it twice and then throw it back in the corner to get the next doll. GOG is the gourmet á la Games Workshop among the stores, I have no choice but to compete with the nerds who crack any puzzle, no matter how complicated, half asleep. 😭
 

MrBaynie

New Member
I think the number of players should be cross platform to avoid these kind of problem. You add up all the players from all the platform to calculate the percentage.

Exophase already has the different versions of a game linked in the game info tab of each game.

The problem with that is that there are some exceptions, where games have different achievements based on the platform (GTA4 doesn't have multiplayer achievements on steam ; OG Final Fantasy 7 has different sets between steam, ps4 and retro), but users could notify that.
 

x3sphere

Administrator
Staff member
Enforcer Team
Game Info Editor
In this case, it's mainly due to a lower sample size. When we have enough players tracked for a particular game, the EXP usually comes in pretty close between platforms. With GOG we have a very low number of tracked players compared to other services.

For games with a low player count, maybe the rarity values could be pulled from GOG itself instead of relying on our database, and we could calculate the EXP off that. My guess is the EXP would come in closer to the other platforms then.

I'm hesitant atm on applying EXP equally across platforms. A lot of multi platforms games have slight differences, so yes we would have to manually exclude these. Plus, there's situations where one platform will get DLC achievements/trophies earlier than the other (though this is less common nowadays). I'm not necessarily against implementing it, but it's something we would have to test thoroughly - not as simple as it seems.
 

Vervaticus

Member
Would be awesome if all the players from retroachievements could be transferred over to exophase so that the exp points are more accurate
 

g4aw

New Member
Unfortunately, I'm can't take the Exophase rank seriously. Just today I found 35 blatantly cheating accounts. And clearly they don't care about banning these users.

1687917367386.png
 

x3sphere

Administrator
Staff member
Enforcer Team
Game Info Editor
Unfortunately, I'm can't take the Exophase rank seriously. Just today I found 35 blatantly cheating accounts. And clearly they don't care about banning these users.
Sorry you feel that way, although Gunner and I have probably spent hundreds of hours removing users from the leaderboards. We are looking for more folks to help us with handling the reports as well.

One thing that may help is to start requiring that any ranked profiles are verified. This may drastically reduce the amount of cheaters as I think when a lot of them sign up they tend to add their friend accounts (either for fun or as a joke, I presume) who are also cheaters. These users don't use the site to begin with and aren't going to bother verifying so that would knock off a lot. That's likely going to be implemented soon, although we'll give everyone a few months to verify before putting any changes into effect.

I've also slowly been adding some automated solutions to detect cheaters. Other sites like TA have better tools to detect cheaters as they've been around longer though. We're still playing catchup in that regard.

So I have to disagree that we "don't care", but it may be some time yet before the situation improves. And realistically, it is impossible to fully monitor the leaderboards with the amount of help we have currently. We tend to look for the most egregious cases of cheating but users that have only cheated in a few games can slip by and we primarily rely on user reports in those cases.
 

g4aw

New Member
Lamento que você se sinta assim, embora Gunner e eu provavelmente tenhamos passado centenas de horas removendo usuários das tabelas de classificação. Estamos procurando mais pessoas para nos ajudar a lidar com os relatórios também.

Uma coisa que pode ajudar é começar a exigir que todos os perfis classificados sejam verificados. Isso pode reduzir drasticamente a quantidade de trapaceiros, pois acho que quando muitos deles se inscrevem, eles tendem a adicionar suas contas de amigos (seja por diversão ou por brincadeira, presumo) que também são trapaceiros. Esses usuários não usam o site para começar e não vão se preocupar em verificar, então isso seria muito ruim. Isso provavelmente será implementado em breve, embora daremos a todos alguns meses para verificar antes de colocar qualquer alteração em vigor.
at least the players which has several games with achievements unlocked at sime hour have to be banned, they disturb the ranking. Because If you ban everyone who has already cheated, only you are left here.

1687980016806.png
 
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SilentJay76

New Member
I was just wondering about the differences in EXP awarded for achievements of similar rarity.

Achievement rarity 3.17% is worth 10.4 EXP.

Achievement rarity 3.05% is worth 174.4 EXP.

Achievement rarity 4.23% is worth 230.4 EXP.

Achievement rarity 3.80% is worth 147.3 EXP.

I'm a bit confused about the extremely low EXP for Offroad Legends 2. The other three games (for comparison) are all close enough, despite wildly different user numbers. Is this just "one of those things" in the algorithm? Or is there something wrong with Offroad Legends 2? It just seems odd, since most 99% achievements are worth more than 10 EXP.

No big deal. Just wondering. (And a bit disappointed after unlocking a couple of tricky achievements in that game.) :)
 

Mahogany

New Member
Am I bind, or is there no spot for EXP on the profile page? One would think it would be calculated at the top along with the other stats?
 

Attachments

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    EXP.png
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x3sphere

Administrator
Staff member
Enforcer Team
Game Info Editor
I was just wondering about the differences in EXP awarded for achievements of similar rarity.

Achievement rarity 3.17% is worth 10.4 EXP.

Achievement rarity 3.05% is worth 174.4 EXP.

Achievement rarity 4.23% is worth 230.4 EXP.

Achievement rarity 3.80% is worth 147.3 EXP.

I'm a bit confused about the extremely low EXP for Offroad Legends 2. The other three games (for comparison) are all close enough, despite wildly different user numbers. Is this just "one of those things" in the algorithm? Or is there something wrong with Offroad Legends 2? It just seems odd, since most 99% achievements are worth more than 10 EXP.

No big deal. Just wondering. (And a bit disappointed after unlocking a couple of tricky achievements in that game.) :)
The difference with Offroad Legends 2, is that there are several achievements with under 1% rarity including one with only 0.11% unlock rate. Majority of the points are getting allocated to those, leaving less points for the rest - that is why the points aren't as comparable for similar rarity on the others.

Maybe it can be tweaked somewhat, I'll think about it - don't want to make any per-game adjustments though.
Am I bind, or is there no spot for EXP on the profile page? One would think it would be calculated at the top along with the other stats?
It will show once you are ranked on the leaderboard. Can take up 24 hours after registering.
 

SilentJay76

New Member
The difference with Offroad Legends 2, is that there are several achievements with under 1% rarity including one with only 0.11% unlock rate. Majority of the points are getting allocated to those, leaving less points for the rest - that is why the points aren't as comparable for similar rarity on the others.

Maybe it can be tweaked somewhat, I'll think about it - don't want to make any per-game adjustments though.
Appreciate the explanation.

Maybe a tweak to the general formula might be worth considering, at least. (Per-game is obviously not realistic.)

Currently a 100%-rarity trophy in a trophy-booster game like Space Kabaam is worth about the same as a 4%-rarity achievement in Offroad Legends.

Space Kabaam = 84 EXP for 12/12 trophies (rarest 93%)
Offroad Legends = 24 EXP for 11/19 achievements (rarest 3%)

Does not compute. 🤖
 

Joorkan

New Member
Hi, Im new on the exophase and there is thing that wonders me: why world of warcraft achievements are worth so little? They all are worth like 7-8 exp, even the rarest. For example:


1707822666204.png


This makes them not worth farming at all.
 

x3sphere

Administrator
Staff member
Enforcer Team
Game Info Editor
Hi, Im new on the exophase and there is thing that wonders me: why world of warcraft achievements are worth so little? They all are worth like 7-8 exp, even the rarest. For example:


View attachment 14803

This makes them not worth farming at all.
The cap on EXP is 50K per game currently. Since it has so many achievements this kind of limits the value. I would be open to adding an exception for WoW, maybe around 1M EXP total for the game would be fairer.
 
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