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iPhone OS 3.0 Announced and Detailed

FrozenIpaq

Justin B / Supp. Editor
Enforcer Team
There are no rules on when and how you must respect a developer. There are morals, and if you wish to follow them then go ahead. Morally I think that stealing from Apple is justified on this one occasion considering they are a large multi-national corporation that can most definitely afford to lose money by me not paying for their new firmware update.

Personally, I think it's totally out of order to make people pay for a firmware update for a device they have spent hundreds of pounds on buying. Pathetic even. I have absolutely no problem stealing from Apple and I'm not ashamed to say it.
I agree 100%. The iTouch is over-priced and people still buy it (as with all apple products). Since apple charges a premium for their devices the least they could do is offer free firmware upgrades (heck Sony does it and Microsoft doesn't charge for updates to the Zune either, at least not since I last remember).

Apple didn't make the iPhone succeed and as useful as it is now (app-wise), individual developers did. The iPhone right now is almost a better smartphone than a WinMo device - the community supports it more and provides more usable applications. Granted 3.0 brings some good features to the table, the fact that it has a software keyboard and no keyboard accessories prevents it from getting any further in the smartphone realm than it already is.

That's my rant for the day (currently in Journalism class, waiting for class to end...yay?)

PS: I hate mac keyboards and the mouse, after extensive use they suck
 

-chw42-

Like a Boss
So its okay to pirate Apple made programs? Like Remote?


If you agree with that, then why dont we all go and pirate Sony made PSP games?


If people are going to respect developers and buy their products, they need to do it across the border. Not just when they want to do it.
Big companies can take loses. Independent developers can't. It's like taking away $100 away from a millionaire. He wouldn't give a shit. If you take $100 from some hobo on the street, he'll go ape shit on you.

---------- Post added at 03:18 PM EST ---------- Previous post was at 03:15 PM EST ----------

I don't see how Apple is losing money when we get firmwares for free.
From what I've learned, they're forced to make us pay for new features.

It's a United States accounting law. iPhone users get it for free because they already have an account with AT&T and they pay Apple some money in those fees every month, so it makes up for the firmware fees. On the other hand, there is no such thing on an iPod touch. It's a one time purchase and there are no service fees.

IMO, this is bullshit. Why is it that PSP firmware updates are free? What about Zune updates? Seems like it has loop holes.
 

Vee

New Member
Big companies can take loses. Independent developers can't. It's like taking away $100 away from a millionaire. He wouldn't give a shit. If you take $100 from some hobo on the street, he'll go ape shit on you.
Fair enough. But that doesn't mean stealing money from the rich guy is morally correct. You think its okay to steal from rich people, but not from the poor? Their both wrong. So lets either do them, or not.

Morally I think that stealing from Apple is justified on this one occasion considering they are a large multi-national corporation that can most definitely afford to lose money by me not paying for their new firmware update.
Just this one time? You do realise that Apple make iTouch owners pay for every reasonably big update? From what i know, theres been two updates up untill not that have cost. So it isn't on a single occasion, the average iTouch owner has done it already more then once.
Personally, I think it's totally out of order to make people pay for a firmware update for a device they have spent hundreds of pounds on buying. Pathetic even. I have absolutely no problem stealing from Apple and I'm not ashamed to say it.
I do too. But i'm sure they've done it to show the difference between the iPhone and the iTouch. In apples eyes, the iPhone is the premium device. Its why a AC Charger comes with an iPhone and not with a iTouch. They're trying to make a superficial pedestel for the iPhone and i dont blame them. They get a hell of a lot more money for it.


I'd just like to clarify. I'm not saying that pricing firmware updates is correct. All i'm trying to say is, dont pirate from Apple, then think its not okay to pirate from any other company, whatever its size.
 

FrozenIpaq

Justin B / Supp. Editor
Enforcer Team
Fair enough. But that doesn't mean stealing money from the rich guy is morally correct. You think its okay to steal from rich people, but not from the poor? Their both wrong. So lets either do them, or not.


Just this one time? You do realise that Apple make iTouch owners pay for every reasonably big update? From what i know, theres been two updates up untill not that have cost. So it isn't on a single occasion, the average iTouch owner has done it already more then once.

I do too. But i'm sure they've done it to show the difference between the iPhone and the iTouch. In apples eyes, the iPhone is the premium device. Its why a AC Charger comes with an iPhone and not with a iTouch. They're trying to make a superficial pedestel for the iPhone and i dont blame them. They get a hell of a lot more money for it.


I'd just like to clarify. I'm not saying that pricing firmware updates is correct. All i'm trying to say is, dont pirate from Apple, then think its not okay to pirate from any other company, whatever its size.
The reason why the iPhone comes with a wall charger is because it is a phone and all phones do, not all MP3 players come with wall chargers. Also the reason why it is free on the iPhone is because of the contract you have signed with ATT
 

Moose

Meta Moose
Just this one time? You do realise that Apple make iTouch owners pay for every reasonably big update? From what i know, theres been two updates up untill not that have cost. So it isn't on a single occasion, the average iTouch owner has done it already more then once.
I mean one time as in Apple Firmware Updates in general, not specifically the 3.0 Apple Firmware Update. :)

I do too. But i'm sure they've done it to show the difference between the iPhone and the iTouch. In apples eyes, the iPhone is the premium device. Its why a AC Charger comes with an iPhone and not with a iTouch. They're trying to make a superficial pedestel for the iPhone and i dont blame them. They get a hell of a lot more money for it.
So the user has to pay extra for the difference they chose between two devices? Uh, that's bullshit to be honest.

I'd just like to clarify. I'm not saying that pricing firmware updates is correct. All i'm trying to say is, dont pirate from Apple, then think its not okay to pirate from any other company, whatever its size.
I do. Very much so. The difference between me buying a firmware or pirating it is so minuscule in terms of how much Apple earn in comparison to all of the purchases of that firmware that I couldn't give a shit. The differences in consumer purchases of a firmware sold by Apple and a game sold in the App Store is gigantic. An average App Store App is about $0.99... the Apple Firmware Update is $10. It doesn't take a mathematician to work out that Apple earns ten times (more actually, seeing as the developer gets 70% of all purchases for their App) the amount a developer does for every firmware sold versus an App sold at $0.99.

That was pretty long-winded, sorry. :p
 

-chw42-

Like a Boss
Fair enough. But that doesn't mean stealing money from the rich guy is morally correct. You think its okay to steal from rich people, but not from the poor? Their both wrong. So lets either do them, or not.


Just this one time? You do realise that Apple make iTouch owners pay for every reasonably big update? From what i know, theres been two updates up untill not that have cost. So it isn't on a single occasion, the average iTouch owner has done it already more then once.

I do too. But i'm sure they've done it to show the difference between the iPhone and the iTouch. In apples eyes, the iPhone is the premium device. Its why a AC Charger comes with an iPhone and not with a iTouch. They're trying to make a superficial pedestel for the iPhone and i dont blame them. They get a hell of a lot more money for it.


I'd just like to clarify. I'm not saying that pricing firmware updates is correct. All i'm trying to say is, dont pirate from Apple, then think its not okay to pirate from any other company, whatever its size.
Nobody said stealing was okay or right. It's just that stealing from a bigger company means less than stealing from a smaller one because of the smaller impact on the larger company compared to the larger impact on the independent developer.
 

spike021

iPhone Developer (prev. PSP Dev)
Do you guys download cracked apps from the App Store? What about some of these developers who create worthwhile stuff and people don't pay for it? If you're a developer, then you know that a good application takes much time to build. Wouldn't you want to be payed for this? Some developers aren't *poor* at its worst sense, but there are developers who don't have much money either and they've decided to devote themselves to writing some of these apps. You're cheating them.
 

Sullivan

New Member
@Spike, I have spent probably 200-300 on the app store alone, half of which are all crap, straight nothing, therefore, I see no point in buying crap. Although I will buy something if I like it.

And I will not be paying for this 3.0 firmware, I will be getting it free like many did with the 2.0 firmware.
 

eighty4

Active Member
Do you guys download cracked apps from the App Store? What about some of these developers who create worthwhile stuff and people don't pay for it? If you're a developer, then you know that a good application takes much time to build. Wouldn't you want to be payed for this? Some developers aren't *poor* at its worst sense, but there are developers who don't have much money either and they've decided to devote themselves to writing some of these apps. You're cheating them.
I don't give a fuck.

Anyways, I don't see how Apple LOSES money opposed to not gain.
 

Vee

New Member
Do you guys download cracked apps from the App Store? What about some of these developers who create worthwhile stuff and people don't pay for it? If you're a developer, then you know that a good application takes much time to build. Wouldn't you want to be payed for this? Some developers aren't *poor* at its worst sense, but there are developers who don't have much money either and they've decided to devote themselves to writing some of these apps. You're cheating them.
I pirate applications from the App Store. Even though theirs loads of great applications, i'm yet to find one thats actually worth money. I think the closest anyone has come is Rolando and linerider guys.
Anyways, I don't see how Apple LOSES money opposed to not gain.
Well, they do have to pay for developers to work on the software. All the expenses, which they do recoup from sales. If the firmware was free, they'd be losing money. But it isn't so that way, they recoup all the money and get a hefty profit.
 

Sullivan

New Member
I see that this thread is straying from where it was meant.

I don't think apple is loosing much, and there app store is nothing compared to the profits that they make in the hardware portion of there market.
 

-chw42-

Like a Boss
Do you guys download cracked apps from the App Store? What about some of these developers who create worthwhile stuff and people don't pay for it? If you're a developer, then you know that a good application takes much time to build. Wouldn't you want to be payed for this? Some developers aren't *poor* at its worst sense, but there are developers who don't have much money either and they've decided to devote themselves to writing some of these apps. You're cheating them.
Who wouldn't be pissed off if somebody stole something from you? Nevertheless, the world isn't fair and some people don't give a shit about others. That's the reality of it.

If you think piracy on the iPhone is bad (because it clearly is not, there's still a ton of legitimate buyers), think of what the PSP studios have to put up with. It's getting to the point where almost 50% of PSP users have CFW (not entirely true, but based on a log on D_A's blog, over 50% of users who visited the PSN store had custom firmware).
 

Vee

New Member
Who wouldn't be pissed off if somebody stole something from you? Nevertheless, the world isn't fair and some people don't give a shit about others. That's the reality of it.

If you think piracy on the iPhone is bad (because it clearly is not, there's still a ton of legitimate buyers), think of what the PSP studios have to put up with. It's getting to the point where almost 50% of PSP users have CFW (not entirely true, but based on a log on D_A's blog, over 50% of users who visited the PSN store had custom firmware).
Those figures can't be right. 50%? From what i knew, the pirating community on the PSP comes up to less then 20%.

PSP isnt even bad, look at PC. Hardly anyone wants to develop for it now because its so easy to pirate on.
 

Colm

New Member
Ontopic: update looks horrible. Wow, we get copy-and-paste, but now we're being microtransacted. I dislike microtransaction. DLC should be free, charge full price for apps, end of. It pisses me off enough on consoles that we aren't getting full games because of the publishers' obsession with microtransaction.
Vee said:
PSP isnt even bad, look at PC. Hardly anyone wants to develop for it now because its so easy to pirate on.
False.
The PC doesn't have a market for it. Due to constant changes in the hardware market, non-hardcore gamers are discouraged from building their systems. This decreases the size of the market and means that it isn't possible to be profitable on PC.
 

-chw42-

Like a Boss
Those figures can't be right. 50%? From what i knew, the pirating community on the PSP comes up to less then 20%.

PSP isnt even bad, look at PC. Hardly anyone wants to develop for it now because its so easy to pirate on.
It's from Dark Alex's blog...

---------- Post added at 08:38 PM EST ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 PM EST ----------

Ontopic: update looks horrible. Wow, we get copy-and-paste, but now we're being microtransacted. I dislike microtransaction. DLC should be free, charge full price for apps, end of. It pisses me off enough on consoles that we aren't getting full games because of the publishers' obsession with microtransaction.
I don't think it's terrible. But yeah, a lot of this shit should have been there in the first place. Why the hell would you put a bluetooth chip into a device and not use it?
 

Colm

New Member
Nike+iPod used the bluetooth chip, and there's a paid Jailbreak app called iBluetooth that seems to do more than Apple's going to allow you to do with it. Is the bt chip 2g only?
 

Vee

New Member
False.
The PC doesn't have a market for it. Due to constant changes in the hardware market, non-hardcore gamers are discouraged from building their systems. This decreases the size of the market and means that it isn't possible to be profitable on PC.
I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't saying that its the only reasons that developers are annoyed, its one of the reasons. Rampant piracy and leaking of games has just spelt dissapointment for developers.

It's from Dark Alex's blog...
Woah, then i'm extremley suprised. 50%? Jesus.
 

-chw42-

Like a Boss
Nike+iPod used the bluetooth chip, and there's a paid Jailbreak app called iBluetooth that seems to do more than Apple's going to allow you to do with it. Is the bt chip 2g only?
Yeah, it's 2G only. I don't know how many people even use the Nike+iPod app. Seems like a bad way to utilize the BT chip.

Does iBluetooth only work for iPhone?

---------- Post added at 11:31 AM EST ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 AM EST ----------

I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't saying that its the only reasons that developers are annoyed, its one of the reasons. Rampant piracy and leaking of games has just spelt dissapointment for developers.



Woah, then i'm extremley suprised. 50%? Jesus.
It actually makes some sense...

There were 300 players on Resistance Retribution regularly before the game even came out. Now, there's around 540, 600 would be pushing it. So yeah, over half the players who are playing online probably pirated the game.
 
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