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Piracy

TRFyuki

MessageBoxA No License!
I'm so sick and tired of reading the word piracy.
How sanctimonious are you people?
You basically make it a hobby to break DRM which is just as bad as piracy.
And then you type things like filthy pirates.

If people buy a PSP ...
Then only run Homebrew on it ...
It still kills Sony's business model.
It's just as bad as stealing the PSPs off of the shelf.

hacker == pirate

Nonsense... I bought my PSP1000 on the day of NorthAmerican launch, purchased lumines and RidgeRacer, then never updated firmware because I knew my 1.50 OFW would be hacked shortly. The FolderName-%-trailing thing came out and I was playing homebrew ever since. Didn't pirate a thing. Played old japanese Capcom Arcade games that I wouldn't otherwise *ever* get my hands on - same goes for the bunch of old Nintendo roms that I play. *Nobody* today is selling the games I play via homebrew. Intense-playing of Lumines peaced-out the Dpad on my PSP1000. So, I've got my PSP3000 with 5.01OFW and I'm currently looking at the dust-covered device on my table. Other than to quickly test the TIFFhelloworld thing, I'm waitin' on anything that gives me my Capcom CPS2 & NesterJ emulation back.

BTW, I invite everyone to play this game... it's in Capcom Sports Club and you need CPS2 Emulation for it. YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.
 

m1ndtr1p

New Member
I'm so sick and tired of reading the word piracy.
How sanctimonious are you people?
You basically make it a hobby to break DRM which is just as bad as piracy.
And then you type things like filthy pirates.

If people buy a PSP ...
Then only run Homebrew on it ...
It still kills Sony's business model.
It's just as bad as stealing the PSPs off of the shelf.

hacker == pirate

Well said.

I've been browsing these forums for quite a while, and I always found it funny how people dislike pirates, yet they're all running around with hacked PSPs running CFW and playing emulators and/or homebrew games on them. It's basically the same thing as pirating, you can still buy a lot of those old games on various new consoles. Homebrew games based on other games is the same thing... Even though the Homebrew game has a different name, that still falls into copyright infringement since everything else (textures, characters, graphics, music etc...) is ripped out of the original game. It doesn't have to be an exact copy in order for it to be considered copyright infringement, there has been many cases that only small similarities were enough to win a lawsuit for the copyright holder.

The point is, if Sony wanted CFW or homebrew to run on the PSP, they would have done it themselves long ago... If that was the case, we'd still have an open platform to play with like the 1.00 and 1.50 OFW days, but we don't, just the fact that Sony has been trying to stop people from doing this is enough proof that what davee and the team are doing here with the HEN and everyone out there running CFW and homebrew are just as bad, if not worse than pirates, you're essentially supporting pirates by giving them the tools they need to run pirated games (UMD rips and Emulators alike) on their PSPs.

That said.

Great work Team Typhoon, keep it up! Looking forward to HEN's release. :tup:
 

TRFyuki

MessageBoxA No License!
Well said.

I've been browsing these forums for quite a while, and I always found it funny how people dislike pirates, yet they're all running around with hacked PSPs running CFW and playing emulators and/or homebrew games on them. It's basically the same thing as pirating, you can still buy a lot of those old games on various new consoles. Homebrew games based on other games is the same thing... Even though the Homebrew game has a different name, that still falls into copyright infringement since everything else (textures, characters, graphics, music etc...) is ripped out of the original game. It doesn't have to be an exact copy in order for it to be considered copyright infringement, there has been many cases that only small similarities were enough to win a lawsuit for the copyright holder.

The point is, if Sony wanted CFW or homebrew to run on the PSP, they would have done it themselves long ago... If that was the case, we'd still have an open platform to play with like the 1.00 and 1.50 OFW days, but we don't, just the fact that Sony has been trying to stop people from doing this is enough proof that what davee and the team are doing here with the HEN and everyone out there running CFW and homebrew are just as bad, if not worse than pirates, you're essentially supporting pirates by giving them the tools they need to run pirated games (UMD rips and Emulators alike) on their PSPs.

That said.

Great work Team Typhoon, keep it up! Looking forward to HEN's release. :tup:
And again... pure nonsense & garbage
*Hackers aren't responsible for Pirates, just like:
* alcohol-makers are responsible for DUIs.
* Car-modders adding Nitrous-boost to cars are not responsible for people breaking the speed-limit.
* Knife-makers are not responsible for stabbing crimes.
* Gun-makers are not responsible for shootings.
* Wifi-card makers for laptops are not responsible for people hacking into other wireless networks.
* Casino-owners are not responsible for people's gambling addictions or issues.

Oh, and hackers "jailbreakin" iPhones does not make them pirates either.
...and developing tools for cellphone sim-unlocking, flex, seem-edits tower-selection-optimization does not directly translate to the folks cloaning cellphones. And baseball-bat makers aren't responsible if I whack the next person I see over the head with a bat. And the makers of GrandTheftAuto aren't responsible if I decide to go out and steal a car tomorrow after playing their game.
 

m1ndtr1p

New Member
And again... pure nonsense & garbage
*Hackers aren't responsible for Pirates, just like:
* alcohol-makers are responsible for DUIs.
* Car-modders adding Nitrous-boost to cars are not responsible for people breaking the speed-limit.
* Knife-makers are not responsible for stabbing crimes.
* Gun-makers are not responsible for shootings.
* Wifi-card makers for laptops re not responsible for people hacking into other wireless networks.
* Casino-owners are not responsible for people's gambling addictions or issues.

It's not nonsense, it's common sense...

If Sony wanted homebrew apps/games to run on the PSP, they wouldn't be working so hard to patch these exploits allowing users to run them and would be working WITH the community to make homebrew apps/games more accessible and easier to install/run. You can't argue that fact...

If hacking the PSP never happened, there would be no pirating on the PSP. So yes, all the devs who worked on trying to get through Sony's security on the PSP to run homebrew are directly responsible for any and all pirating on the PSP. Without them, pirating games on the PSP would be impossible...

Now don't get me wrong, I don't hate hackers or pirates, nor do I approve of pirating, I personally think that devs should be paid for their work on the great games they release for us through game sales. But to say that hacking the PSP to run CFW/homebrew isn't the same as pirating is laughable... In both cases you're going against the terms of use you agreed to when you bought the console and game, which is illegal.

That said.

I personally could care less about emulators or ISO/CSO support as I always buy the games I want to play and still own the older consoles, for me CFW and the HEN are just tools to play around with... Everything I do with the PSP, I can do with OFW.

Now back on topic...
 

TRFyuki

MessageBoxA No License!
It's not nonsense, it's common sense...
If hacking the PSP never happened, there would be no pirating on the PSP. So yes, all the devs who worked on trying to get through Sony's security on the PSP to run homebrew are directly responsible for any and all pirating on the PSP. Without them, pirating games on the PSP would be impossible...
I know this is getting off topic, so I'm just gonna post this and be done.
For that logic to work, then you must agree to the following:
- Gun makers are responsible for shooting crimes
- Alcohol makers are responsible for DUIs
- Casino-owners are responsible for gambling problems.

What say you?

BTW: This site using ajax to display new replies to threads without me refreshing is a super-awesome feature.
 

WildArmsV

New Member
And again... pure nonsense & garbage
*Hackers aren't responsible for Pirates, just like:
* alcohol-makers are responsible for DUIs.
* Car-modders adding Nitrous-boost to cars are not responsible for people breaking the speed-limit.
* Knife-makers are not responsible for stabbing crimes.
* Gun-makers are not responsible for shootings.
* Wifi-card makers for laptops are not responsible for people hacking into other wireless networks.
* Casino-owners are not responsible for people's gambling addictions or issues.

Oh, and hackers "jailbreakin" iPhones does not make them pirates either.
...and developing tools for cellphone sim-unlocking, flex, seem-edits tower-selection-optimization does not directly translate to the folks cloaning cellphones. And baseball-bat makers aren't responsible if I whack the next person I see over the head with a bat. And the makers of GrandTheftAuto aren't responsible if I decide to go out and steal a car tomorrow after playing their game.

First of all i dont have nothing againts piracy xD, just again what this dude said

Yeah well, but casino owners didn't took somebody else product, and use them themselves, knife makers didn't took someone else device to make their own tools, doing that is considered piracy, hackers take somebody else device, (psp, nintendo DS, computers,etc) and hack into them and use them as they like, of course that is piracy already, and well, playing emulators and stuff, hacking a psp and not playing Emulator or ISO games is like putting a chocolate in front of you and not eating it, or like having air and not breathing it. Dont lie to yourselve.

I have nothing againts hacking, is kinda contradictory that davee doesnt put ISO cause of piracy when what he is doing it is, even if it sounds bad and stuff saying is piracy, but i dont mind at all, maybe someone else will make that be able or whatever.

But well this is what some people like to do, like some people like to sniff stuff, or have a collection of clocks whatever, is a really wide world =D
 

TRFyuki

MessageBoxA No License!
hacking a psp and not playing Emulator or ISO games is like putting a chocolate in front of you and not eating it, or like having air and not breathing it. Dont lie to yourselve.

Or like a man being married to an ugly woman ...then seduced by another hot-girl, right? He can't be expected to resist? Nah man... not buying it. The married-man should resist. If a hacker chooses to take things to the piracy level, *THEN* he/she becomes a pirate. I'm not saying hackers are perfect. I know in best-case scenerio they're "grey area" when it comes to law.... but a pirate is a separate issue.

[ok, this is really my last post on that... if I haven't convinced everyone with these last 2 posts... I never will]
 

WildArmsV

New Member
Or like being a married man and having another hot-girl throw herself at him, right? He can't be expected to resist? Nah man... not buying it. Hackers are not the same as pirates. I'm not going to say hackers are perfect & legal, but being a hacker doesn't make you a pirate. A pirate is taking it to another level.

Well yeah u are right, we can say hackers are hackers and pirate is a pirate xD, just like hackers like to hack, pirates like to pirate? i think we can say that, hackers use oficial stuff for their stuff, and pirates use hackers stuff for their stuff

Oh and something else, i dare you to use HEN but not using homebrew stuff, cuz that is hacking already ;)
 

wololo

New Member
If Sony wanted homebrew apps/games to run on the PSP, they wouldn't be working so hard to patch these exploits allowing users to run them and would be working WITH the community to make homebrew apps/games more accessible and easier to install/run. You can't argue that fact...
If Sony had allowed homebrews the way Apple does with the iPhone, we wouldn't be trying so hard to break the PSP (hackers would still be trying, just with less conviction), and I swear nobody would have ever heard of the tiff exploit.

We're merely correcting an awful marketing strategy here. Too bad Sony's not involved, they would have made money out of all this.
 

m1ndtr1p

New Member
I know this is getting off topic, so I'm just gonna post this and be done.
For that logic to work, then you must agree to the following:
- Gun makers are responsible for shooting crimes
- Alcohol makers are responsible for DUIs
- Casino-owners are responsible for gambling problems.

What say you?

BTW: This site using ajax to display new replies to threads without me refreshing is a super-awesome feature.

For your logic to work, we'd be talking about Sony and not hackers... So your analogies don't work at all in this case since Sony doesn't allow homebrew or CFW to be run on the PSP.

The TOS/TOU (terms of service/terms of use) included with every game and every console is like a contract... It specifically states that you're NOT allowed to modify or copy it in any way, hackers are breaking said contract by hacking the PSP and modifying them to allow homebrew to be run. Likewise, programmers create applications to rip (READ: Copy) games from UMD, which are then made available on the internet. In both cases they are going against the TOS/TOU (AKA: contract) they agreed to, and which is again, illegal.

And I agree, we've gone way off topic. Start a thread if you want to continue this discussion further, I'm sure many other people would like to voice their opinion on this as well.

EDIT, haha, apparently it's already moved.
 

TRFyuki

MessageBoxA No License!
lol yeah, well we have our own thread now xD, wanna keep debating

Heh... alright then.


"""m1ndtr1p said"""
The TOS/TOU (terms of service/terms of use) included with every game and every console is like a contract... It specifically states that you're NOT allowed to modify or copy it in any way, hackers are breaking said contract by hacking the PSP and modifying them to allow homebrew to be run. Likewise, programmers create applications to rip (READ: Copy) games from UMD, which are then made available on the internet. In both cases they are going against the TOS/TOU (AKA: contract) they agreed to, and which is again, illegal.
"""

Yeah, hackers can be legal or illegal... pirates are pretty much always illegal(In USA) but what I won't accept is the concept of "Hackers=Pirates". As long as we can keep those 2 terms separate, I'm cool. Also... I'm intercepting any replies that someone will say Hackers are like the "gateway-drug" to pirates. Hacking is a world all its own, pirates are something else entirely. I can learn to shoot a gun and become an expert at it, but when I go and shoot another human-being for no good reason that is a whole separate dark-path.
 

m1ndtr1p

New Member
If Sony had allowed homebrews the way Apple does with the iPhone, we wouldn't be trying so hard to break the PSP (hackers would still be trying, just with less conviction), and I swear nobody would have ever heard of the tiff exploit.

We're merely correcting an awful marketing strategy here. Too bad Sony's not involved, they would have made money out of all this.

But the PSP wasn't meant to allow homebrew, at least by Sony's definition... Sony ultimately decides what happens to their console and what they can or can't be allowed to do... Similarly, Apple hasn't completely accepted homebrew on their iPhone either, hence why jailbreaking is still happening and Apple is still working hard to stop people from jailbreaking their iPhones with updates.

I do agree that it was a mistake on Sony's part to not allow homebrew in the first place, but that doesn't change the fact that it's against the TOU we all agreed to.

---------- Post added at 06:21 PM EST ---------- Previous post was at 06:19 PM EST ----------

Heh... alright then.


"""m1ndtr1p said"""
The TOS/TOU (terms of service/terms of use) included with every game and every console is like a contract... It specifically states that you're NOT allowed to modify or copy it in any way, hackers are breaking said contract by hacking the PSP and modifying them to allow homebrew to be run. Likewise, programmers create applications to rip (READ: Copy) games from UMD, which are then made available on the internet. In both cases they are going against the TOS/TOU (AKA: contract) they agreed to, and which is again, illegal.
"""

Yeah, hackers can be legal or illegal... pirates are pretty much always illegal(In USA) but what I won't accept is the concept of "Hackers=Pirates".
As long as we can keep those 2 terms separate, I'm cool.

In the case of PSP hacking, being a pirate and a hacker is the same thing... Both are going against the TOU of the console and game(s).
 

FrozenIpaq

Justin B / Supp. Editor
Enforcer Team
But the PSP wasn't meant to allow homebrew, at least by Sony's definition... Sony ultimately decides what happens to their console and what they can or can't be allowed to do... Similarly, Apple hasn't completely accepted homebrew on their iPhone either, hence why jailbreaking is still happening and Apple is still working hard to stop people from jailbreaking their iPhones with updates.

I do agree that it was a mistake on Sony's part to not allow homebrew in the first place, but that doesn't change the fact that it's against the TOU we all agreed to.

---------- Post added at 06:21 PM EST ---------- Previous post was at 06:19 PM EST ----------



In the case of PSP hacking, being a pirate and a hacker is the same thing... Both are going against the TOU of the console and game(s).

Being a pirate and a "hacker" are definetly not the same thing, regardless of what way you look at it
 

Slasher

Suck It
But the PSP wasn't meant to allow homebrew, at least by Sony's definition... Sony ultimately decides what happens to their console and what they can or can't be allowed to do... Similarly, Apple hasn't completely accepted homebrew on their iPhone either, hence why jailbreaking is still happening and Apple is still working hard to stop people from jailbreaking their iPhones with updates.

I do agree that it was a mistake on Sony's part to not allow homebrew in the first place, but that doesn't change the fact that it's against the TOU we all agreed to.

---------- Post added at 06:21 PM EST ---------- Previous post was at 06:19 PM EST ----------



In the case of PSP hacking, being a pirate and a hacker is the same thing... Both are going against the TOU of the console and game(s).

Hacker != Pirate

You are taking something completely irrelevant (but still valid) and somehow applying it to hackers.

Just because they both "illegally" break a terms of use contract, that does not make them the same thing. That's just plain ridiculous to think like that. I totally agree with TRFyuki, his analogies are spot on.
Another thing worth mentioning is that if somebody is using homebrew, it's naive to automatically assume that person is also using emulators as well. It's not always the case.

If you aren't downloading/ripping games and running them, then you aren't a pirate. Hackers don't do said thing.
 

Telpeurion

New Member
The real discussion should be about intellectual property. First let's look at physical property. The accessible universe as far as we know is full of scarce and ever dwindling resources, if the universe was infinite (which perhaps it is) and more importantly, infinitely accessible (which it is not), there would be no need for physical property. If I took some bread from you without permission in this hypothetical place there would be no issue, you have an unending supply, and if you wanted to you could blast my brains out with a shotgun, and I would reappear instantaneously. No harm done, lets laugh about it.

HOWEVER, this is not the case. We are finite beings, in a finite universe. So individuals have two choices; We can fight each other arbitrarily over these scarce resources, or, as some realize, work together within a marketed division of labor towards achieving, and helping others achieve, their individual aspirations. Thus we have the often attacked institution of private property. Each person has legal right to their body, property, and contracts. (Naturally there has never been a 'free market' like this due to the misunderstanding of the idea) Anyway, before I go on a tangent, the concept of property exists only due to limited resources.

Now, let's look at abstract intellectual property. When you tell me an idea you have, I now have in my mind my own version of that idea. Have I stolen it? No! You still have your idea, and I have mine. What if I decide to go capitalize on "your idea" and succeed better than you? Everyone else is better off, maybe you as "originator" of the idea, can out do me, if not, no one is worse off for it. Let's face it, when I download a song or a game, it is on to a tangible piece of property THAT IS MINE, I own the hard drive and all the 1's and 0's on it. By the way, the song or game is not stolen! It still exists, I copied it onto material I OWN. It is absolutely ridiculous that someone thinks they can say how and how not I can arrange my property. I could explain this a lot further, but the utter silliness of intellectual property becomes apparent rather quickly.

You will notice a lot of early composers used to give their sheet music out for free, and let others perform it. As the songs became popular, people would pay to have artists perform the music, and that is where the money was made, from concerts. From the service and use of the PHYSICAL elements, not from the music itself, but the tangible tools used to make it. Gaming business models that center around multiplayer are doing extremely well at the moment, because they center around paying to use the company's servers to render a service. When I buy a book, I should be paying for the materials used to make the book, not the knowledge inside it - Likewise, I could be able to go online and download it for free since I am not trying to get the bindings, paper, and ink - I already paid for bandwidth,. I do not think I said all this very eloquently, but I hope at least it gets a discussion going.
 

m1ndtr1p

New Member
Being a pirate and a "hacker" are definetly not the same thing, regardless of what way you look at it

In this case the results are the same, they're both going against the contract they agreed to (by using the PSP) when they purchased the console, which is illegal.

Yes, hackers in general != pirates, but in the case of PSP hacking, it leads to piracy.

Hacker != Pirate

You are taking something completely irrelevant (but still valid) and somehow applying it to hackers.

Just because they both "legally" break a terms of use contract, that does not make them the same thing. That's just plain ridiculous to think like that. I totally agree with TRFyuki, his analogies are spot on. You don't blame the gun maker directly for deaths caused by guns.
Another thing worth mentioning is that if somebody is using homebrew, it's naive to automatically assume that person is also using emulators as well.

If you aren't downloading/ripping games and running them, then you aren't a pirate. Hackers don't do said thing.

You can't legally break a contract, breaking ANY contract is illegal no matter which way you put it.

TRFyuki's analogies are flawed, hackers don't MAKE the PSP, they illegally modify them...

To make his analogies (well one of them) work would be something like this (still not the same but close):

Gunsmiths (Sony) make the guns and sells them to the public... Gun enthusiast (hackers) buys a gun and finds a way to modify it to full auto, get rid of the serial number and barrel markings... Gun enthusiast then freely distributes his modification to users (pirates) who then uses it to modify their and other people's guns and go out to kill people, rob people etc...

1. Modifying a gun to full auto, filing off the serial number and tampering with the barrel is also illegal, just like modifying a PSP to run homebrew, ISO/CSO and emulators.

2. Killing/robbing people is illegal (obviously), just like pirating...

If the enthusiast didn't share his knowledge, the user wouldn't have done the modifications and spread them around so others could rob/kill people.

Although this analogy is still flawed due to the fact that guns can kill people regardless of if they're modified or not while the PSP cannot play pirated games without the modification... It still shows that ALL of TRFyuki's analogies are VERY flawed, to the point of not making any sense when compared to hacking and pirating the PSP/games.

Simply put, both are equally illegal... Both are equally wrong in Sony's eyes who, at the end of it all, decides what is or isn't allowed on THEIR console. So Davee's (and many others, not singling him out) stance on pirates is hypocritical, since both hacking and pirating are bad for business (again, in Sony's eyes). If they felt so strongly about doing the "right" thing, any and all hacking of the PSP would stop and the HEN/CFW would never be released.
 

Adiuvo

Active Member
Now, let's look at abstract intellectual property. When you tell me an idea you have, I now have in my mind my own version of that idea. Have I stolen it? No! You still have your idea, and I have mine. What if I decide to go capitalize on "your idea" and succeed better than you? Everyone else is better off, maybe you as "originator" of the idea, can out do me, if not, no one is worse off for it. Let's face it, when I download a song or a game, it is on to a tangible piece of property THAT IS MINE, I own the hard drive and all the 1's and 0's on it. By the way, the song or game is not stolen! It still exists, I copied it onto material I OWN. It is absolutely ridiculous that someone thinks they can say how and how not I can arrange my property. I could explain this a lot further, but the utter silliness of intellectual property becomes apparent rather quickly.
The thing about this is that it's not the actual 1s and 0s that people are claiming are theirs- it's the sequence. If you can somehow come up with an arbitrary combination of numbers, and replicate the exact item (let's say song), without seeing that song, then it is not piracy. However, by copying the song, you are copying the same amount of work that someone else did, without doing any work yourself. Taking an item and placing it into a medium you own cannot make it yours, because you did not do the work.

Ideas are something different. Since we all live in the same world, it is quite possible that two people can come up with the same idea. However, two people cannot create the same song, the same book, the same movie, etc., because of the amount of work that goes into that medium. An idea - generally - does not take much work at all to initially conceive. Planning that idea, and implementing it, does. That would be where the concept of ownership comes in, not at the initial stage.

Hopefully I didn't completely misinterpret your point.
 

Telpeurion

New Member
In this case the results are the same, they're both going against the contract they agreed to (by using the PSP) when they purchased the console, which is illegal.

Yes, hackers in general != pirates, but in the case of PSP hacking, it leads to piracy.



You can't legally break a contract, breaking ANY contract is illegal no matter which way you put it.

TRFyuki's analogies are flawed, hackers don't MAKE the PSP, they illegally modify them...

To make his analogies (well one of them) work would be something like this (still not the same but close):

Gunsmiths (Sony) make the guns and sells them to the public... Gun enthusiast (hackers) buys a gun and finds a way to modify it to full auto, get rid of the serial number and barrel markings... Gun enthusiast then freely distributes his modification to users (pirates) who then uses it to modify their and other people's guns and go out to kill people, rob people etc...

1. Modifying a gun to full auto, filing off the serial number and tampering with the barrel is also illegal, just like modifying a PSP to run homebrew, ISO/CSO and emulators.

2. Killing/robbing people is illegal (obviously), just like pirating...

If the enthusiast didn't share his knowledge, the user wouldn't have done the modifications and spread them around so others could rob/kill people.

Although this analogy is still flawed due to the fact that guns can kill people regardless of if they're modified or not while the PSP cannot play pirated games without the modification... It still shows that ALL of TRFyuki's analogies are VERY flawed, to the point of not making any sense when compared to hacking and pirating the PSP/games.

To the best of my knowledge, the contract you speak of only concerns the warranty. Essentially, if you modify your console, you void your voucher to get a replacement. It is not, however, illegal to modify your property, in of itself. So, its not SONY'S CONSOLE, is YOURS, once you buy it. (You don't actually but it from Sony anyway, you buy it from a retailer who doesn't give a shit if you modify it.
 

m1ndtr1p

New Member
The real discussion should be about intellectual property. First let's look at physical property. The accessible universe as far as we know is full of scarce and ever dwindling resources, if the universe was infinite (which perhaps it is) and more importantly, infinitely accessible (which it is not), there would be no need for physical property. If I took some bread from you without permission in this hypothetical place there would be no issue, you have an unending supply, and if you wanted to you could blast my brains out with a shotgun, and I would reappear instantaneously. No harm done, lets laugh about it.

HOWEVER, this is not the case. We are finite beings, in a finite universe. So individuals have two choices; We can fight each other arbitrarily over these scarce resources, or, as some realize, work together within a marketed division of labor towards achieving, and helping others achieve, their individual aspirations. Thus we have the often attacked institution of private property. Each person has legal right to their body, property, and contracts. (Naturally there has never been a 'free market' like this due to the misunderstanding of the idea) Anyway, before I go on a tangent, the concept of property exists only due to limited resources.

Now, let's look at abstract intellectual property. When you tell me an idea you have, I now have in my mind my own version of that idea. Have I stolen it? No! You still have your idea, and I have mine. What if I decide to go capitalize on "your idea" and succeed better than you? Everyone else is better off, maybe you as "originator" of the idea, can out do me, if not, no one is worse off for it. Let's face it, when I download a song or a game, it is on to a tangible piece of property THAT IS MINE, I own the hard drive and all the 1's and 0's on it. By the way, the song or game is not stolen! It still exists, I copied it onto material I OWN. It is absolutely ridiculous that someone thinks they can say how and how not I can arrange my property. I could explain this a lot further, but the utter silliness of intellectual property becomes apparent rather quickly.

You will notice a lot of early composers used to give their sheet music out for free, and let others perform it. As the songs became popular, people would pay to have artists perform the music, and that is where the money was made, from concerts. From the service and use of the PHYSICAL elements, not from the music itself, but the tangible tools used to make it. Gaming business models that center around multiplayer are doing extremely well at the moment, because they center around paying to use the company's servers to render a service. When I buy a book, I should be paying for the materials used to make the book, not the knowledge inside it - Likewise, I could be able to go online and download it for free since I am not trying to get the bindings, paper, and ink - I already paid for bandwidth,. I do not think I said all this very eloquently, but I hope at least it gets a discussion going.

The problem with that comes copyright, you may "own" the physical item (Media, CD, DVD etc...), but the content of the media is still owned by the artist/publisher/author etc... By using the media, you agree to a contract that states you will not copy, distribute or modify it in any way and that owning a modified version or a direct copy of said content is illegal and punishable by law...

This is why they have terms of service and terms of use on everything, it's a contract that you agree to and "sign" every time you buy any type of media which contains any type of content...
 
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