Piracy

[NoEffex]

What? You bring up some fictitious case about a "big company" coming to out do me in every way and say I am for monopoly? How did this company get so big? Sheesh. And if they "stole" my idea, what stops someone else from stealing theirs? Circular logic?

You are the one talking about granting monopolies on the production of goods and services! What other monopoly is there? Haha... This is a first, I speak of reducing barriers to entry, and you say I am a monopolist, that's rich.

You don't seem to understand how it works. I say you're for monopolies because people psychologically do not enjoy change, and they thus like buying from a specific company. If that company likes your product, rebrands it with their name, people will buy it over yours because their company is trusted, and often times they will market it cheaper to run you out of business(Wal-Mart does it all the time. They run local small businesses out of business by selling what they sell for less because they can handle it, then they mark the price up when that business goes out of business). All the while you see zero income from it and have thus wasted your time.

Monopolies have much larger budgets and can outlast smaller companies by a longshot, thus they can rebrand X product and drive you out of business.

 

[Telpeurion]

You don't seem to understand how it works. I say you're for monopolies because people psychologically do not enjoy change, and they thus like buying from a specific company. If that company likes your product, rebrands it with their name, people will buy it over yours because their company is trusted, and often times they will market it cheaper to run you out of business(Wal-Mart does it all the time. They run local small businesses out of business by selling what they sell for less because they can handle it, then they mark the price up when that business goes out of business). All the while you see zero income from it and have thus wasted your time.

Monopolies have much larger budgets and can outlast smaller companies by a longshot, thus they can rebrand X product and drive you out of business.

:laugh: Look up the definition of monopoly, my friend.

 

[ServerPlague]

Haha, what about the guy who invented the wheel? We are all infringing on his copyright. How dare you!

Wow, this really does show how little you understand copyright, it lasts for a limited time after the creators death. It will have long passed.

Argument void.

 

[Davee]

Haha, what about the guy who invented the wheel? We are all infringing on his copyright. How dare you!

:laugh: Look up the definition of copyright, my friend.

 

[Perfect-skillz]

:laugh: Look up the definition of copyright, my friend.

nice one davee!!!!! i never use M33 for piracy, i use it for apps and to play with everything the psp was meant to do, i believe that all game developers should get their fair cut!!!

 

[NoEffex]

:laugh: Look up the definition of monopoly, my friend.

A monopoly is a business that controls the industry it works on. Wal-Mart pretty much dominates it.

However, the better word would have been large business.

Piracy in no way supports monopolies, strictly they support people having the right to their own creations, then allowing the public to get their hands on it when they die.

 

[ServerPlague]

Exactly, I'm sure that Telpeurion would feel different if it were the other way around.

 

[Telpeurion]

:laugh: Look up the definition of copyright, my friend.

Cheap shot, if you had read previous posts down the thread, we were discussing whether or not intellectual property was valid. I am well aware that copyrights expire, HOWEVER, they are completely arbitrary. J.R.R. Tolkien is dead but his copyrighted material live on. Explain that. The government renews some, and leaves behind others. Mickey Mouse? Still trademarked. As long as you can afford a lobby in Washington your patents, etc. may never wear off! Some expire even during the inventor/author's lifetime? And what about company copyright?

---------- Post added at 07:17 PM EST ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 PM EST ----------

Wow, this really does show how little you understand copyright, it lasts for a limited time after the creators death. It will have long passed.

Argument void.

Note my above response to Davee. Either way, what about the harm done during that persons' lifetime! I brought up the case of James Watt, inventor of the steam engine earlier in the thread as the perfect example of intellectual property stalling technological progress.

http://mises.org/story/3280

Especially in today's world, can we really afford to have 50, 60, 70 year long monopoly grants, and that is essentially what they are. A monopoly on the production of a particular good.

---------- Post added at 07:19 PM EST ---------- Previous post was at 07:17 PM EST ----------

Exactly, I'm sure that Telpeurion would feel different if it were the other way around.

What about equality before the law? The government granting patents, etc. is clearly a grant of privilege.

---------- Post added at 07:23 PM EST ---------- Previous post was at 07:19 PM EST ----------

A monopoly is a business that controls the industry it works on. Wal-Mart pretty much dominates it.

However, the better word would have been large business.

Piracy in no way supports monopolies, strictly they support people having the right to their own creations, then allowing the public to get their hands on it when they die.

A monopoly is the sole owner of any given thing, place, etc.

Wal Mart, is NOT a monopoly.

The only entity in society that is a monopoly is the government, and of course it grants monopoly privileges to its parasites.

All in all, why aren't we discussing the root issue, is intellectual property law legitimate? Does it work? Does it not?

 

[WildArmsV]

well i think that the copyrights are made to protect something of a company/team/person from other companies/teams/persons if someone abuses the copyrights the other have, well then we see the in the court and officially gets pwned whoever wins.
If that didnt exist, piracy wouldnt exists either since there would be like companies that copy other companies but cheaper and stuff like that. Of course all of that would be legal if there werent copyright things.

So yeah if you want piracy to exist there must be copyrights things. And as i already said before, piracy is neither good or bad... (obviusly bad for the person who got stolen) it have its downs and ups for companies, like system/games sales cycle i said before and as well for some ppl that dont live in USA that buying games in my own country is like buying 2 games in the US, is not that i dont buy original games either, so is all from the perspective you see, maybe for example i have a game, i sell good, and gets pirated, well i at least got a good profit, i hate the fact that i got copied, but that way more ppl will see my work as well

 

[NoEffex]

Cheap shot, if you had read previous posts down the thread, we were discussing whether or not intellectual property was valid. I am well aware that copyrights expire, HOWEVER, they are completely arbitrary. J.R.R. Tolkien is dead but his copyrighted material live on. Explain that. The government renews some, and leaves behind others. Mickey Mouse? Still trademarked. As long as you can afford a lobby in Washington your patents, etc. may never wear off! Some expire even during the inventor/author's lifetime? And what about company copyright?

---------- Post added at 07:17 PM EST ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 PM EST ----------



Note my above response to Davee. Either way, what about the harm done during that persons' lifetime! I brought up the case of James Watt, inventor of the steam engine earlier in the thread as the perfect example of intellectual property stalling technological progress.

http://mises.org/story/3280

Especially in today's world, can we really afford to have 50, 60, 70 year long monopoly grants, and that is essentially what they are. A monopoly on the production of a particular good.

---------- Post added at 07:19 PM EST ---------- Previous post was at 07:17 PM EST ----------



What about equality before the law? The government granting patents, etc. is clearly a grant of privilege.

---------- Post added at 07:23 PM EST ---------- Previous post was at 07:19 PM EST ----------



A monopoly is the sole owner of any given thing, place, etc.

Wal Mart, is NOT a monopoly.

The only entity in society that is a monopoly is the government, and of course it grants monopoly privileges to its parasites.

All in all, why aren't we discussing the root issue, is intellectual property law legitimate? Does it work? Does it not?

Copyright laws were enacted to prevent people from losing rights to what THEY accomplished, as it clearly did not work before because people would steal products and take all the money from it. I used wal-mart as an example because how they work is a perfect fit for what happens(Which I don't want to reiterate). A person has the right to what he/she creates.

If copyright laws did not exist I could get a huge loan, re-label an avenged sevenfold CD to say "NoEffex Eightfold" and make millions off of it while the real creators see NOTHING. I cannot see how you can possible justify the stealing of products.

 

[Bill]

A monopoly is a company/corporation who alone COMPLETELY influences the prices/availability of a specific market. Remember how in ECON they used to use Ma Bell as an example? They controlled the market of telecommunications till the government filed antitrust against them.

"Ma Bell's got us by the calls"

 

[xist]

Actually no, it's a completely different legal sphere.

ISO's are flat out illegal.

ROMS on the otherhand are legal under the condition that you own the original game (this is a legal clause found in any of the EULAs associated with these old SNES, etc. games).

I believe that's a common misconception....

Wikimedia Error

 

[Slasher]

I believe that's a common misconception....

Wikimedia Error

Lol, not only did you cite wikipedia as a source, but you also inadvertently proved my point. Thanks.

"ROM images of commercial games usually contain copyrighted software. The unauthorized copying and distribution of copyrighted software is usually a violation of copyright laws (in some jurisdictions duplication of ROM cartridges for backup purposes may be considered fair use)."

I suppose some countries don't allow it, but it's not completely illegal.

Regardless, ROMS are generally acceptable since the consoles we are emulating on the PSP are no longer in production and are no longer being sold. You're comparing apples to oranges when saying it's the same type of piracy as ISO's. For obvious reasons, it's not the same thing.

 

[Hellcat]

If you OWN the game, movie, whatever on it's original media, you can copy it as often as you like to whatever you like as long as you are the only person laying eyes on it - that's how it's handled in germany, you actually got THE RIGHT of a personal copy

UNLESS: you need to circumvent any kind of (active) copy protection to do so, bypassing any kind of copy-protection is ILLEGAL again.

 

[FrozenIpaq]

If you OWN the game, movie, whatever on it's original media, you can copy it as often as you like to whatever you like as long as you are the only person laying eyes on it - that's how it's handled in germany, you actually got THE RIGHT of a personal copy

UNLESS: you need to circumvent any kind of (active) copy protection to do so, bypassing any kind of copy-protection is ILLEGAL again.

The unless part is what gets many people. Slasher you are wrong to say that "ROMs are legal so long as you own the game", that's a completely wrong misconception. The DMCA needs to be updated frankly, it is not up with the times. You can argue that you are making a copy for archival purposes only, but even then you can't circumvent copy-protection....

 

[xist]

That's the point....there's no distinction here between ROM's for the supported emulators and PSP and PSX ISO's. One is equally as legal or illegal as the other.

 

[Slasher]

The unless part is what gets many people. Slasher you are wrong to say that "ROMs are legal so long as you own the game", that's a completely wrong misconception. The DMCA needs to be updated frankly, it is not up with the times. You can argue that you are making a copy for archival purposes only, but even then you can't circumvent copy-protection....

Well Ipaq, you can take that up with EvilSeph. What I said was a copy & paste of what EvilSeph posted in the HEN thread to shut people up

Besides, you're talking US laws. US laws don't account for the entire world - like Hellcat pointed out Germany is one of many that allows it.

 

[xist]

So now you're agreeing that PSP and PSX backups are OK according to the conditions laid out earlier?

 

[Slasher]

So now you're agreeing that PSP and PSX backups are OK according to the conditions laid out earlier?

No, I stand by what I said earlier.

"Regardless, ROMS are generally acceptable since the consoles we are emulating on the PSP are no longer in production and are no longer being sold. You're comparing apples to oranges when saying it's the same type of piracy as ISO's. For obvious reasons, it's not the same thing."

Legally ROMS & ISO's may be considered the same thing in some countries, but it's certainly not right to say ISO's and ROMS are the same thing as far as piracy goes on the PSP.

 

[xist]

So DS backups are OK but PSX ISO's aren't....that's some messed up logic there....