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Unfair banning

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jas0nuk

New Member
I know I haven't posted in public forums here before, and this may seem a little rude as my first post, but I felt I had to post it.

It appears you banned a friend of mine, rabbit, quite unfairly. I've heard his side of the story, evidently some moderators here didn't pay attention and he has remained banned.

What he did doesn't justify a permanent ban. I've been an oper on Malloc.us (and before that, LAN.st) for a LONG time, and I've dealt with plenty of assholes who do nothing but flame and troll. Usually though, giving them a second or third chance is enough to make them realise that they've done wrong, and I think that should be the case with rabbit. He understands that he acted like an asshole the first and second time, and that even though he was unfairly permanently banned which does not correspond to what your own rules state, he wants to return and start again.

Anyway, here is his side of the story: (I'm not responsible for foul language induced by his justified anger)
rabbit said:
Read it all before you decide to do anything, mostly because if you don't bother reading it you're just reinforcing my point.

Anyway, most of my quotes aren't in the usual style, since I can't post (and hence can't quote), so I'll give URLs to threads directly.

Let me first say that I feel I've been treated like shit.

Let me also say that I've already apologized for being a douchebag, and I recognize that what I did was stupid.

Now, let me ALSO say that you're all being asstards.

So, here's how things went down:

I was a flaimbaiting, flaiming, asspirate.
I got permanently banned. Please note that NO REASON WAS PROVIDED (which is just laziness on the mod's part). Sure, I may have been a dick, but a permanent ban is unacceptable, especially after having been given no warning or temporary ban.

So, I talked to x3sphere, and he unbanned me. Sadly, I was an idiot (well...I wasn't, I was just pissy and acting childish) and did the same thing. Again, permanent ban. Again, no reason (lazy fucking mods). I worked out a deal with x3sphere, and he unbanned me AGAIN.

Our deal was simple: I stop being a douchefuck, I stay unbanned. You know what happened? I kept up my end of the bargain. I even gave you guys a month to cool off.

When I DID come back, I posted twice and then, magically, I was banned, AGAIN. You know what I posted? I asked a question, and I helped somebody. Unfortunately, the lazy mod staff just saw my name on the boards and decided I should be banned. This is the part that reinforces my point, if you're reading. I didn't do anything wrong, and I was banned because you didn't read my posts.

So, on to my question: What the fuck is wrong with you morons? Sure, this isn't the best way to ask to be unbanned, but I'm fucking stumped. Your rules clearly state:
First offense - Warning.
Second offense - Revocation of abused privileges.
Third offense - Ban of a length determined by the Administration.
http://forums.exophase.com/showthread.php?t=5586

But, in my case it went:
First offense - permanent ban
Second offense - permanent ban
Third offense - permanent ban

I also want to point out that I actually had no third offense, I was punished twice for the same (second) offense. And, in fact, I was punished twice for a thread that hasn't been publicly available for over a month. It took me a game of 20 questions with Mathieulh before he finally realized (after I told him) that my thread wasn't public. He also said he'd unban me if it wasn't for x3sphere banning me, and x3sphere said he'd unban me if it wasn't for you lazy mods wanting me banned. Now, here's the thing: YOUR BOSS LIKES ME. Do you know what that means? It means shut the hell up. If I were constantly a brackish jerk he wouldn't be my friend, and neither would Mathieulh, who, as I recall, is some kind of god to you people. I also happen to be part of a group most of you would orgasm if you knew about, and I'm friends with everyone in it. Know why? THEY DON'T BAN ME WHEN I GET MAD FOR A FEW DAYS. I was fine for 49 posts, then I made one and was instantly gone. You all need to chill out a little.

And yes, I admit I have vulgar language sometimes, and I'm an ass sometimes, but somehow I've managed to befriend your boss, god, idols, and role models. How does that work? Think about it, you trigger happy jerks. And you know what? Mods shouldn't even have the power to ban users. That's an admin responsibility. Mods should MODERATE, ie: manage boards.

I also want you all to note that I've not resorted to childish methods of "getting even" or anything like that (I feel I must point this out). I have not attacked the website; I have not created new accounts; I have not spammed; I have not issued any threats.

A note to EvilSeph: I don't dislike you as a person, but I do resent what you did to LAN. That said, you're a jerk for it, and you'll have a tough time changing my mind.

Anyway, that's all I have to say.

And that's all I have to say. The rest is up to you, the moderators, as I understand x3sphere would be willing to unban him as long as you agree to it.

~jas0nuk
 

EvilSeph

Administrator
Thread closed pending Administration response. It will be re-opened after all three Admins have replied.
 

EvilSeph

Administrator
To jas0nuk:

Not a problem, we'll allow the contents of this post despite it infringing our rules and no repercussion will occur on anyone's part.

Yes, we decided to ban rabbit. But, no, it was not unfairly done nor unjustified. The first time - maybe even the second - may have been but this is somewhat irrelevant now and you'll find out why in my reply to rabbit.

Lastly, I disagree. His anger and behavior is not justified and will count against him.

To rabbit:

I don't agree with your being unbanned and this is why:

While I agree that a ban without reason is invalid, your handling of getting it sorted out is not good practice and why we, the Administration, decided to ban you in the first place. Flaming, insulting, insinuating drama is not the best way to go about requesting that an unfair ban should be looked at, a simple talk with the Administration is better suited and would have probably avoided all this drama altogether.

Although you were unbanned twice by x3sphere, your unbanning was not well communicated throughout the staff and it is for that very reason why you were only re-banned when you returned. The staff were not aware that you were unbanned until you returned and asked for a reban (with. justification.) and so, you were rebanned (after a really long time). The events surrounding the timing of the ban were completely unrelated, so you were not banned "for being nice". Decisions take time and decisions can change.

Based on your plea to be unbanned, I'd say you really shouldn't. First you say you've apologised and you'll be good and then, right after that, you insult this community's staff. Not the best way to deal with things.

Granted, you're angry. I wouldn't say justifiably angry, but angry nonetheless. So I won't be too hard on your poor choice of words and won't hold it against you too much.

As for your pointing out that we've changed our rules to include a 3-strike system, it seems you conveniently left out a key part of our rules:
Our rules said:
Note: While we try to guarantee that every member is given three chances, we reserve the right to make any decision we believe is necessary to address the situation at hand up to and including, but not limited to, banning someone without warning.

It is this clause which allows us to ban you without having 3-strikes, as you claim you didn't get.

Secondly, you're banned. The new rules don't apply to you unless you are unbanned or register a new account (which would just get you banned again).

Lastly, having friends in high places gets you nowhere around here, so I don't see why you are pointing this out.

However, all this being said, since you were unfairly banned the first time, I do not have any issue with giving you one more chance if x3sphere wishes.

And next time someone bans you improperly or unfairly, try to be civil about reporting it.
 

x3sphere

Administrator
Staff member
Enforcer Team
First of all I don't think rabbit was banned unfairly. Indeed, he posted defamatory comments and directed personal insults at the staff. For that I agreed with the staff to ban him.

Anyway, in the month rabbit has been banned, I believe that he has changed. After a talk with him on IRC, he promised that he would abide by the forum rules from now on. And well, I believe him.

Taking this into account and the fact that I do not believe what he did before warranted a permanent ban, I am for unbanning him under one condition. If he violates -any- of the forum rules from this point on, he does not get a warning, but a permanent ban.
 

Mathieulh

Developer
After looking at the posts that got rabbit banned here I can fairly reply that his ban was justified, however if x3 feels like it, I can give him another chance, but he has to know the followings, if he screws up again I :

- Wont cover for him anymore.

- Will make sure he remains banned for good.

So if he plans to stay on these forums he'd better behave. I know him for a long time but I wont fall into favouritism.
 

Clint

Clintoris
Hello, everyone.

Although my opinion is of rather small importance, I feel it should be added. Considering I'm not staff, I don't feel that my opinon is swayed in any direction prior to my reading of the incidents. If he was an idiot the first time, was unbanned by his friendship with staff, and continued to be an idiot, he should still be banned. A warning isn't needed, the method in which banning is done always depends on the severity of the incident.

Mods shouldn't even have the power to ban users. That's an admin responsibility. Mods should MODERATE, ie: manage boards.
Moderating the forums means keeping the idiots out, the people who do get mad often. If he or she's going to be rude, mad, or whatever else he may feel, if it's not appropriate for the forums then it's just as easy as not posting it.

Honestly, I don't think he should be unbanned solely for the reasons he posted. The idea that he should be unbanned because a reason wasn't given is total crap. He needs to accept the fact that he was banned and leave it up to the staff to make a decision as if he was a normal user, not biased by their personal relationships with the users of the forum.

I guess something he said had an impact on the decision, or something he's said to the administrators, because he was unbanned.


Clinteger
 

d1ddy

New Member
This is nonsense , rabbit acted like an asshole a couple of times , but eveyone is fucking human , everyone makes mistakes. So what rabbit made a couple mistakes .. He accepted the fact that he did them and came back and tried to be a better person, He tried to be the bigger person and just start new but he was banned unfairly.
 

x3sphere

Administrator
Staff member
Enforcer Team
This is nonsense , rabbit acted like an asshole a couple of times , but eveyone is fucking human , everyone makes mistakes. So what rabbit made a couple mistakes .. He accepted the fact that he did them and came back and tried to be a better person, He tried to be the bigger person and just start new but he was banned unfairly.

He isn't banned if you read the last two posts me and Mathieulh decided to unban him. Still I think he definitely earned his past ban.
 

Cheezeball99

But I was committed after that birthday party...
Okay, I know MY opinion doesn't count for too much either (don't feel bad Clint) even though I am a mod, but I'mma tell it anyway. rabbit, you're unbanned now, yes? Well I hope you read this post, I'm going to (hopefully) stay neutral on everything, tell my opinions and maybe even clear a thing or two up for you, partly because I don't like people making assumptions for me, partly because nobody has really asked me about my opinions on anything and I have a tendency to make them known, partly because there's a few things about it all that irritate me, and partly because I just got back from hangin' with a few friends and need something to waste time with to wind down from the alcohol and craziness before I go to bed.:wink:
_______________________________________________

My opinions of your bans:

First off, I have to be honest, I didn't even see your original banned offense as very, well, offensive. Trolling? Maybe, but it was also your opinion. Then you were defending your opinion. That's fair. And then you posted your OPINION, again, focus on that 'O' word, of EvilSeph. You weren't really trying to force your ideals onto anyone else, you were simply defending your own. Flamebaiting? Maybe. Purposely causing trouble? Yeah, pretty much, but not quite a ban-worthy offense, in my opinion.

Then you came back and confronted the Staff with it all. The way you approached it, honestly, I thought was definitely ban-worthy. Permanent? Hardly. Maybe 5 days or so, to cool off.

Then then you managed to come back AGAIN, and then you, in all honesty, WERE banned for absolutely no reason. It was the equivalent of giving a kid a jaw-breaker, he takes a lick, then you grab it from him and stomp it to dust. Not cool at all, and not a wise decision on the part of the administration, IMO.

THEN THEN THEN :)p) you manage to do what you've done this final time, and get yet another chance. From what I take from this you really want this opportunity to be back here at eXophase, and I don't even personally thing you should be on such parole that you are being forced into. I also hope since you're under such supervision that you don't change the way you've been, because I like your "in-your-face" attitude, it's something seldom found around here TBH.:thumbup1:
_______________________________________________

Nitpicking on what you said:
-Now, let me ALSO say that you're all being asstards.

-He also said he'd unban me if it wasn't for x3sphere banning me, and x3sphere said he'd unban me if it wasn't for you lazy mods wanting me banned.

-You all need to chill out a little.

-Again, no reason (lazy fucking mods).

-So, on to my question: What the fuck is wrong with you morons?

Let me say something; I'm a mod, yet I had absolutely nothing to do with this; I've never even been consulted even once on all of these events, and the only things I've ever had to say were what you saw that I posted and when Shadowforte said he was leaving I wished him luck on his future endeavors. That was it, and yet you're referring to me; I don't appreciate that. Although, that being said I do feel your being upset with what has happened should be taken into account, and on a personal level I appreciate it and forgive you; I'm not looking for any sort of pussy ass-kissing apology by any means.

How does that work? Think about it, you trigger happy jerks. And you know what? Mods shouldn't even have the power to ban users. That's an admin responsibility. Mods should MODERATE, ie: manage boards.

Read something, man- NORMAL MODS LACK THE POWER TO BAN OR UNBAN USERS. Maybe even Lead Moderators do; The only people I'm SURE have the power to ban and unban are the subsections 'Administrators' and 'Staff'. Everyone you've been banned by are in one of those two groups. Common moderators, such as Acerthief, MenaceInc, roe-ur-boat, myself and the like lack the power to do such a thing as ban a user.

Now, here's the thing: YOUR BOSS LIKES ME. Do you know what that means? It means shut the hell up. If I were constantly a brackish jerk he wouldn't be my friend, and neither would Mathieulh, who, as I recall, is some kind of god to you people.

Don't care, don't tell me to shut the hell up. eXophase is eXophase, and even though x3 is pretty much my boss here I don't give a goddamn what he is, I'd still tell him he was a piece of shit if I thought he was. I censor myself for nobody and to nobody, about anything. I sometimes change my wording but I always convey my prime point. Just how I am, and if you don't like it then YOU shut the hell up.:) (Sidenote- x3, take no offense, 'twas just an example)

And yes, I admit I have vulgar language sometimes, and I'm an ass sometimes, but somehow I've managed to befriend your boss, god, idols, and role models.

Use your vulgar language. That's fine by me. But a little clarity on the rest- I don't get paid, there is no God, I aspire to be nobody but me, and I look up to nobody but myself. Fixed.

I also want you all to note that I've not resorted to childish methods of "getting even" or anything like that (I feel I must point this out). I have not attacked the website; I have not created new accounts; I have not spammed; I have not issued any threats.

Due-ly noted, and I respect that.

I also happen to be part of a group most of you would orgasm if you knew about, and I'm friends with everyone in it. Know why? THEY DON'T BAN ME WHEN I GET MAD FOR A FEW DAYS.

This is the one thing I didn't care for, and thus is my response-
Be mad, fine, whatever. It happens to everyone, the rest, however, I don't care. STFU. Tell that somewhere that your sweet 'Secret Club' matters. Go back to when you were 8 or something, you're just makin' yourself sound like a douchebag Internet Tough Guy.
_______________________________________________

Final Thoughts:

Well hopefully if you read this rabbit you respect my opinions and what I had to say, because if you don't and if you talk shit and can't take it then you're just scum; but in the past experience I've found you fairly respectable and I think you'll see where I'm coming from on most of this. I find you decent-enough-mannered:p, fairly well informed, and above all entertaining. It takes all kinds to make a good community, and whether you be good or bad you're mostly the opposite of alot of people on here, and that's a good thing, IMO. Welcome back (for the 3rd time) rabbit.
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rabbit

Awesome
A longer response will come later (I have to get ready for class right now), so this will be short.

I hate everybody. Especially people who drive, and even more especially people who drive in front of me (slow fuckers). Unless you somehow prove to me you're not a total moron. Then I like you.

Anyway, my comments at the mod staff were based on discussions with Math and x3. Those discussions were general, as in no names were named, and just "mod staff" was referenced. Additionally, I am not staff, which means I don't have access to staff boards. I don't know who can do what or who has what level of power. As such, I could only be general in my comments.

Nextly, and this is mostly at ES's comment about me talking about how I know all these people, here is a short, multiple choice quiz:
1) Who would you be more likely to listen to?
a. A random pissed off jerk
b. A pissed off jerk who knows people that have some sway in the community

The correct answer is b, and anyone that guessed a should immediately kill themselves. People are more likely to listen to me if I establish a connection between myself and people they already know and like/love/lust as being friends.

That having been said, Cheezeball99, you're like me, only with more horizontal rule tags. You can go far, all you need to do is stop holding back. I saw in your post traces of greatness.

That said, and me being out of time, and me totally disagreeing with your post ES, I will have to totally obliterate it a bit later.
 

MenaceInc

Staff Member
Hmm,i have to say I'm very impressed with the length of everyones posts and how well they're typed.I myself am not gunna type up a long list of reasons why rabbit should or shouldn't be unbanned.

Personally I think he should be given his third chance,after all i suggested the 3 strike rule and do believe everyone should have their 3 chances.Given how he has acted in the past though, I do believe he should apoligise to certain people in regards to threats.I doubt that he would like to hear that though and I'm pretty sure that I'll get something thrown my way but ah well.
 

rabbit

Awesome
I would like to state that there were no threats....or I don't remember them, which means they were halfhearted and stupid, so either way it doesn't really matter. Moreso, I have apologized for being a douchebag, but I will continue to be an ass (as that seems to be who I am, I may as well embrace it). If you point me to something I did wrong, I will either apologize for it (not likely) or back it up (most likely).
 

MenaceInc

Staff Member
post_old.gif
01-10-2008, 07:52 PM
rabbit
user_online.gif

Official eXophase Jerk
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 63
reputation_pos.gif



@The idiot who banned me
[edit]
After discussion with x3sphere and cyanide, I have come to the conclusion that you are a bad moderator in general.

Also, you're still an idiot.

[edit again]
Under the consideration (you're an idiot), I've decided to elaborate so that everything is clear: don't ban people for infinite quantities of time without a warning or notice, and ESPECIALLY without a reason, and even MORE especially don't do that to FRIENDS OF YOUR BOSS.

[edit 3]
I know who you are, shadowforte. Lock your doors.....

That last edit is clearly a threat but then you said
I would like to state that there were no threats....or I don't remember them, which means they were halfhearted and stupid, so either way it doesn't really matter.
.

This is what really got me annoyed at the time, that personal threat. That said, it was a long time ago and you should be given another chance but I know that if that was me, I would apoligise for any threats I made.

Suppose that's whats different about you rabbit...you don't wanna apoligise to anyone for saying what you want to say.
 

rabbit

Awesome
To rabbit:

I don't agree with your being unbanned and this is why:

While I agree that a ban without reason is invalid, your handling of getting it sorted out is not good practice and why we, the Administration, decided to ban you in the first place. Flaming, insulting, insinuating drama is not the best way to go about requesting that an unfair ban should be looked at, a simple talk with the Administration is better suited and would have probably avoided all this drama altogether.
I did talk with the administration, which would have been hard if I didn't know them, seeing as how contacting the staff while being banned and not banwalking is particularly hard.

Although you were unbanned twice by x3sphere, your unbanning was not well communicated throughout the staff and it is for that very reason why you were only re-banned when you returned. The staff were not aware that you were unbanned until you returned and asked for a reban (with. justification.)
I may be an ass, but if someone that was permanently banned is no longer banned, the mods should have enough common sense to ask "why?", and if they don't they aren't suited to be mods.

and so, you were rebanned (after a really long time). The events surrounding the timing of the ban were completely unrelated, so you were not banned "for being nice". Decisions take time and decisions can change.
I happen to know that that is total bullshit. My evidence is confidential, so I'll need a while to get permission from some people. Please don't spew lies.

Based on your plea to be unbanned, I'd say you really shouldn't. First you say you've apologised and you'll be good and then, right after that, you insult this community's staff. Not the best way to deal with things.
That doesn't make sense. You said that I should contact the administration to be unbanned. I did that. You know what happened? I was told I should make a thread. Seeing as how I was banned at the time, I asked jas0nuk to. So, according to you, asking to be unbanned (requiring banwalking) isn't allowed. On top of that, I made comments, not insults. Again, conversations confidential, but from discussions with certain people I was given the impression that the mod staff is annoying as hell (like you think) and lazy.

Granted, you're angry. I wouldn't say justifiably angry, but angry nonetheless. So I won't be too hard on your poor choice of words and won't hold it against you too much.
Poor in your taste, maybe, but I feel that they suited the situation.

As for your pointing out that we've changed our rules to include a 3-strike system, it seems you conveniently left out a key part of our rules:


It is this clause which allows us to ban you without having 3-strikes, as you claim you didn't get.
That is the utmost lamest cop-out ever. Your rules are entirely moot by that point. They should be changed to
We can do whatever we want, and you have to live with it. Shut up.
That would accomplish the same thing, and destroy any argument, like mine, about a 3 strike system.

Secondly, you're banned. The new rules don't apply to you unless you are unbanned or register a new account (which would just get you banned again).
Banned or not, I'm still a member, and your rules say
Each member
not "Each UNBANNED member"

Lastly, having friends in high places gets you nowhere around here, so I don't see why you are pointing this out.
As I explained before, people are more likely to read and accept what I have to say if I'm not some raving pissed off jerk.

I don't agree with your being unbanned
However, all this being said, since you were unfairly banned the first time, I do not have any issue with giving you one more chance if x3sphere wishes.
Make up your mind. Either you don't want me banned, or you do. You can't say both.

And next time someone bans you improperly or unfairly, try to be civil about reporting it.
I was civil. I spent 3 weeks talking to people in private before this thread was made. Please be up to date on your information before you accuse me of creating drama.
 

shadowforte

New Member
Rabbit, please tell me why the heck you are here if you hate everyone. What is the point of even being part of this site if you hate everyone? I will admit that I should not have banned you for ever, but you have done things after the ban that makes me not take back my choice. You have made a threat towards me, called me an idiot, and whatever else you can think of. And one more thing. I could care less if X3phere is you friend. Are you trying to scare me or any of the other mods on here by saying that, because if so it is not working. I love how you bring up the random point in your rant just so we can fill intimidated.
 

rabbit

Awesome
I know, right? I like this site. It doesn't suck. There are plenty of smart people here. And do I really need to reiterate (a third time) why I dropped names, or are you truely an idiot? Read the thread in whole before you ask a question which has been answered already. Twice. And if you think you shouldn't have banned me forever, why not rectify the situation instead of letting it be? I think I know who to blame for the mod staff being called lazy.
 

shadowforte

New Member
No, I was saying that I felt bad for banning you forever before you made a threat and what not. Maybe you are the one that needs to read before posting. You may blame me for your thinking of the staff being lazy (which they are none of the sort what so ever), but I think I now know who to blame for always making trouble for this community.
 

rabbit

Awesome
Yes. That's it. I'm responsible for all the trouble in the community ever. Even the trouble before I joined. And when I was banned. You make sense. Grow up.

And I blame the mod staff being lazy for the mod staff being lazy. I just see more of you than any other member of the mod staff. Also, you seem to have a problem with me, and I still have 0 private messages. Hm. I've been told to resolve problems in private, and yet I'm not the one banning people all willy-nilly. I've said it PLENTY of times in PLENTY of places: if you have a problem with me, PM me or take my responses publicly.
 

shadowforte

New Member
I love your selective reading of my post, as in you only reply to the parts you think your half ass comments will prove wrong. I need to grow up? Right. I have had enough of the stupid arguing.
 
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