• Steam recently changed the default privacy settings for all users. This may impact tracking. Ensure your profile has the correct settings by following the guide on our forums.

Windows 8 bringing 360 compatiblity?

KezraPlanes

Just some dood
#1

x3sphere

Administrator
Staff member
Enforcer Team
#3
Seems improbable... the 360 uses a PPC-based CPU so the games would have to be emulated. The 360 has a tri-core CPU, emulating that on current gen hardware would be quite a feat.

I think it's more likely that this is just some content streaming feature.
 

KezraPlanes

Just some dood
#4
Seems improbable... the 360 uses a PPC-based CPU so the games would have to be emulated. The 360 has a tri-core CPU, emulating that on current gen hardware would be quite a feat.

I think it's more likely that this is just some content streaming feature.
Well, if anyone is aware of what it takes to emulate the 360's CPU it is Microsoft. I have no problems believing they will do this, whether it is streaming or full-emulation, since this would be a big boost for the Live PC service, which could have a myriad of exclusive 360 titles for PC.
 

Joey

New Member
#5
Well, if anyone is aware of what it takes to emulate the 360's CPU it is Microsoft. I have no problems believing they will do this, whether it is streaming or full-emulation, since this would be a big boost for the Live PC service, which could have a myriad of exclusive 360 titles for PC.
Everybody knows what it takes to emulate the 360. The answer is "way more than is available now, and probably for many, many years."

We'll see some kind of On-Live service, or 360 ports before we see Xbox 360 Emulation.
 
#6
I fail to see why after all these years no one has written an assembler to assembler translator. Dynarec is halfway there, but when the entire API of the system is documented such as with a console it should be doable offline.
 

x3sphere

Administrator
Staff member
Enforcer Team
#7
An On Live type service from MS would be cool, but wouldn't work too well. Most 360 games run 720 or sub-720p, blown up on a 1080p monitor they'd look horrid, especially with compression artifacts from streaming added into the mix.

I think this is just a hint at their video / music streaming plans.

What would be nice, is something similar to Steam Play. Purchase a 360 title and get access to a port of it on PC at no extra cost.
 

slicer4ever

Coding random shit
#8
Everybody knows what it takes to emulate the 360. The answer is "way more than is available now, and probably for many, many years."

We'll see some kind of On-Live service, or 360 ports before we see Xbox 360 Emulation.
there's no reason to think that the microsoft engineer's can not do a far better job than any hobbyist developer.(i.e. psp with ps1 support from sony, the closest emulator at the time could only pull off ~5fps or so.)

also, if this is being written to be handled directly by the os, than it means that each version of the emulator can be tailored made for w/e cpu archetecture it's given, decreasing the amount of overhead it needs to take.
 

MenaceInc

Staff Member
Staff member
#9
there's no reason to think that the microsoft engineer's can not do a far better job than any hobbyist developer.(i.e. psp with ps1 support from sony, the closest emulator at the time could only pull off ~5fps or so.)

also, if this is being written to be handled directly by the os, than it means that each version of the emulator can be tailored made for w/e cpu archetecture it's given, decreasing the amount of overhead it needs to take.
While I don't want to put a downer on your theory there, the major difference between Microsoft and Sony is that Sony are in control of the hardware. Microsoft were in the past a software company and for the most part still are. There are plenty of differences between computer setups that would stop Microsoft from getting as much performance out of any random Windows machine than Sony could with the PSP.

All PSP's had the same specifications (except for all 2k+ units have 64MB RAM) which meant Sony could really get down to the hardware with the PS1 emulator they made and ensure it ran perfectly. Microsoft would have to cater for millions of possible combinations which would be impossible. While working with x86/x86_64 asm would be fine since you could reasonably assume that any computer out there with Windows would be running a x86 CPU, there are many multi-core CPUs and unknown amounts of RAM and graphics cards.

I have to agree with x3's theory which is that they would possibly offer a PC version as well as a 360 version.
 

slicer4ever

Coding random shit
#10
While I don't want to put a downer on your theory there, the major difference between Microsoft and Sony is that Sony are in control of the hardware. Microsoft were in the past a software company and for the most part still are. There are plenty of differences between computer setups that would stop Microsoft from getting as much performance out of any random Windows machine than Sony could with the PSP.

All PSP's had the same specifications (except for all 2k+ units have 64MB RAM) which meant Sony could really get down to the hardware with the PS1 emulator they made and ensure it ran perfectly. Microsoft would have to cater for millions of possible combinations which would be impossible. While working with x86/x86_64 asm would be fine since you could reasonably assume that any computer out there with Windows would be running a x86 CPU, there are many multi-core CPUs and unknown amounts of RAM and graphics cards.

I have to agree with x3's theory which is that they would possibly offer a PC version as well as a 360 version.
valid points, still, i'd hold faith that of all the entity's out there capable of achieving this, microsoft would be the only one that could be succesful in such an endeavor imo(at least with current technology). guess we'll have to wait and see though.
 

x3sphere

Administrator
Staff member
Enforcer Team
#11
there's no reason to think that the microsoft engineer's can not do a far better job than any hobbyist developer.(i.e. psp with ps1 support from sony, the closest emulator at the time could only pull off ~5fps or so.)

also, if this is being written to be handled directly by the os, than it means that each version of the emulator can be tailored made for w/e cpu archetecture it's given, decreasing the amount of overhead it needs to take.
The PS1P emulator is a bad example though, it was merely a port of an existing PS1 emu for PC, not optimized for the PSP at all.

One of the few emulators developed specifically for PSP (i.e. not a port) was Exophase's gpSP, and it runs excellent. The GBA emulators before it were incredibly slow. And they were ports. I imagine if someone actually coded a PS1 emu from the ground up for PSP, it would be close to Sony's offering.

That said, there are tricks Sony have since they know the hardware inside and out -- this is not the case with PC, as Menace pointing out, MS only develops the software.

Also, the typical rule for emulation is that you need around 10x the power, no current hardware offers that over the 360. With Intel coming out with 8 and 12-core CPUs this fall, that will change, but why would MS build an emulator only ultra-enthusiasts can use?

I dunno, I'd like to see it happen, but seems very unrealistic.
 

slicer4ever

Coding random shit
#12
The PS1P emulator is a bad example though, it was merely a port of an existing PS1 emu for PC, not optimized for the PSP at all.

One of the few emulators developed specifically for PSP (i.e. not a port) was Exophase's gpSP, and it runs excellent. The GBA emulators before it were incredibly slow. And they were ports. I imagine if someone actually coded a PS1 emu from the ground up for PSP, it would be close to Sony's offering.

That said, there are tricks Sony have since they know the hardware inside and out -- this is not the case with PC, as Menace pointing out, MS only develops the software.

Also, the typical rule for emulation is that you need around 10x the power, no current hardware offers that over the 360. With Intel coming out with 8 and 12-core CPUs this fall, that will change, but why would MS build an emulator only ultra-enthusiasts can use?

I dunno, I'd like to see it happen, but seems very unrealistic.
exophase, i thought it was homer whom wrote the gpSP emulator, also, not every ground up emulator well wield good results(the n64 emulator by strnm didn't exactly pan out.)

i do agree that it's unlikly, but i'll leave the door open for the idea non the less.
 

x3sphere

Administrator
Staff member
Enforcer Team
#13
exophase, i thought it was homer whom wrote the gpSP emulator, also, not every ground up emulator well wield good results(the n64 emulator by strnm didn't exactly pan out.)

i do agree that it's unlikly, but i'll leave the door open for the idea non the less.
Nope, Homer made a mod of one of the first Game Boy emulators, think it was called RIN. Anyways, the N64 was much more powerful than a PS1, more than twice as powerful in fact. The cartridge format held it back unfortunately.

N64 had a 93.75 MHz CPU, compared to the PSOne's 33.8688 MHz . The PSP's CPU is rated @ 333 MHz, so PSOne falls within the 10x rule while the N64 is quite a ways from it.
 

slicer4ever

Coding random shit
#14
Nope, Homer made a mod of one of the first Game Boy emulators, think it was called RIN. Anyways, the N64 was much more powerful than a PS1, more than twice as powerful in fact. The cartridge format held it back unfortunately.

N64 had a 93.75 MHz CPU, compared to the PSOne's 33.8688 MHz . The PSP's CPU is rated @ 333 MHz, so PSOne falls within the 10x rule while the N64 is quite a ways from it.
ah, i never realized the n64 had such a vast superiority over the ps1, i knew it was more powerful, but not nearly 3x as powerful.
 

MenaceInc

Staff Member
Staff member
#15
ah, i never realized the n64 had such a vast superiority over the ps1, i knew it was more powerful, but not nearly 3x as powerful.
One thing that held back the N64 as well apart from the limited storage of cartridges at the time was the abysmally small texture cache. That's why a significant number of titles had blurry textures and some titles even opted just for gouraud shading (like Super Mario 64).
 
Top