God Talk

[FreePlay]

Ever heard of where children died on a school bus by being hit by a train? Then if you put your car on the tracks (and powder your rear bumper), your car will "magically" move, and little hand marks can even be seen on the back of your car afterwards? I know there's an explanation for this along the lines of "oil from your hands seep through the baby powder" but that seems very unlikely and is just a theory.

Ever heard that this is complete and utter bullshit?

Or what about seeing civil war ghosts still fighting over a century later in the same battlefield dressed in their same uniforms?

Same here.

I know this isn't exactly a reputable source either, but some of the paranormal shows on TV certainly show some sort of evidence as well.

Oh, come ON.

This is a whole other issue in itself, but I just also thought, what about psychics? How can they see the future? Sure, some are fake or scams, but some are surprisingly legit.

Not a single one is legit.

I was looked at by a psychic a few months ago, and she knew all sorts of things about me that nobody could possibly of known, even predicting some things in my life that have happened recently like car troubles (tires in particular). Just another bit of consideration leading to something unexplainable.

It's not unexplainable, it's called "cold reading".

Like I said before, "Well ants are really incomparable in this type of situation - they communicate by releasing pheromones which other ants basically smell, and then react too.

You do realize that we have pheromones too, right?

Also, I would just like to clarify I am not in any way saying paranormal events can prove God's existence. I'm just merely using the paranormal as an example to open up the idea that something after death might in fact be real. Who knows? Maybe there is? Maybe there isn't?

There is zero evidence to support the claims.

The Rosenheim poltergeist case, Enfield Poltergeist case, Canneto di Caronia fires case, as well as the Mackenzie Poltergeist. There's many more if you want them.

And I'll bet that in every case there is nothing at all to indicate a supernatural cause, or that the so-called poltergeists magically disappeared when someone tried to confirm their existence.

The Rosenheim Poltergeist case has become an extremely contentious issue. While some claim that it proves the existence of paranormal phenomenon, critics maintain it was set-up and faked, or simply an attention-seeking prank developed by the emotionally disturbed Ms Schneider. There is also no evidence on video that matches the more extreme (and, therefore, paranormal) events said to have occurred.

The others are quite similar.

Sounds more like a lack of understanding and openness on your part.

I'm open to anything for which there is evidence. The fact that I don't immediately jump to a supernatural explanation when I see something I don't understand isn't a sign of a lack of "openness." It's called being a skeptic.

It wasn't like that, and you of all people should know enough not to come to conclusions so ubruptly . Considering I never told him about this little boy, and he said "whose that" when it occured, I beg to differ. There's no evidence, just my own first person experience.

Which is meaningless, because you're biased to believe it was a supernatural experience.

Refer to above

They've been debunked.

Out of curiosity? Why does this phenomena occur?

Wait, what?

You said that paranormal events haven't been proven, so I asked why we should bother disproving them, and you say "out of curiosity". Why on earth would you attempt to disprove something that has never been proven?

There have been efforts to disprove the paranormal, but not everything can be disproved. This leaves room for speculation.

The "paranormal" has never been proven. There is nothing to DISprove.

 

[FreePlay]

You could go to heaven if you were a merciless killer but then turned to god, were sorry for your sins, and stayed true to god. If you are a good person and do what is right, but don't believe in God, then yes you will go to Hell because you have no faith in God.

And you think this is JUSTICE?!

The bible is the word of God.

Then why does it contain massive scientific and logical flaws?

Your right, I have not read the whole Bible cover to cover. But from what I have read all my life, God is fair and just in all things. If God ever punished someone, they deserved it.

So Lot's wife deserved to be turned into a pillar of salt for turning around?

Yes, but other religions have God and Jesus as well.

No. NO other religion tells you to believe in and obey Jesus. Only Christianity.

God gave humans free will. They must choose to have faith in God, so it is their fault if they go to Hell.

WHAT?!

God gave us free will, thus he MADE us with the ABILITY TO DISOBEY HIM.

Therefore, if we do, it's HIS FAULT!

And what do you mean when you say that you have a hard time believing in something that won't give you anything in return? God will give you eternal life! That is the greatest gift one could ever recieve!

How astonishingly convenient that you only get "eternal life" AFTER YOU DIE, so nobody can ever prove you wrong.

Answer me this: Should we love God or fear him?

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Deuteronomy 6:5 (also Mt 22:37, Mark 12:30, Luke 10:27)

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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]"Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength."[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]1 Peter 2:17 (also Deut 6:13, Ps 33:8, 34:9, 111:10) [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]"Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king."[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Luke 12:4-5

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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]"I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. [/FONT]"

Okay, fine. So we should do both, right?

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]1 John 4:16-18 [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]"God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love."[/FONT]

Oops. Looks like if you fear God, you don't love him perfectly and are thus disobeying him, and if you don't fear him, you're disobeying him

God created Humanity, therefore he created all of us.

Therefore he made us in a way that some of us would disobey him. Therefore, our disobedience is his design, and his fault.

As I said before, you musn't always take the bible literally.

And how do you know which parts are literal? Why should we take ANY of it literally?

When the bible refers to the "days" of creation, those days could be a vast amount of years. Days wouldn't be measured in the kind of days we use.

Nope. The Hebrew words specify single 24-hour periods.
. Just another of the many logical contradictions in the Bible.

Thats a whole other belief in itself. As a Christian, I don't believe that is an option.

And why are your beliefs and your book any more valid than anyone else's?

I could say that I've been told by God that all Christians are wrong, and I'd have just as much evidence to back up what I say as you do.

I have learned a lot from going to church all my life. If there is something I don't understand, I ask my pastor for guidance. He warned me that there are those who twist the words of the Bible into something that is against God.

In other words, "ONLY LISTEN TO ME, DON'T BELIEVE ANYONE WHO SAYS ANYTHING DIFFERENT"

In other words, you've been brainwashed to accept his interpretation.

God has no flaws and he is difinitely not evil. It is those who don't belive in him that are flawed and evil. God gave us free will and we must choose to have faith in him to go to Heaven for eternity.

God made everything evil in the world. How could he not have flaws?

Satan makes us sinners. Sin is anything that god did not intend to happen.

God made Satan. God is supposedly omniscient. God knew sin would exist. God created sin.

God DOES answer my prayers. He doesn't speak to you directly of course. He answers prayers through action. My Dad just had open heart surgery two days ago. I prayed to God asking Him to help him through it, and to come out of the surgery better than expected. This indeed happened. His predicament was better than expected and he is going to be doing fine.

Why do you give credit to God and not the DOCTORS WHO DID THE SURGERY?!

 

[FreePlay]

Let's put the prayer thing to the test, shall we?

Matthew 18:18-20. Jesus speaking.

18 "I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
19 "Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven.
20 For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

So go ahead, Matt. Get together with a couple other Christians. Pray in Christ's name that something visible and immediate and objectively real happens. For example, pray that John McCain wakes up tomorrow with a full head of thick, brown hair. After all, "if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven". Anything, and it will be done!

If God really answers prayers, and the Bible is really God's word, and God really follows through on his word, JOHN MCCAIN WILL WAKE UP WITH A FULL HEAD OF THICK, BROWN HAIR.

I'll wait.

 

[Seth]

If God really answers prayers, and the Bible is really God's word, and God really follows through on his word, JOHN MCCAIN WILL WAKE UP WITH A FULL HEAD OF THICK, BROWN HAIR.

I'll wait.

It also has to be in god will...Not just the will of man..

 

[FreePlay]

Nope, that's not what the Bible says. It explicitly says that if two or three are gathered in Christ's name and they agree upon something in prayer, God *WILL* grant their request, full stop.

"if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven".

Anything, and it will be done for you.

This is the end of Jesus' speaking. The next verse is Peter asking a question. There are no qualifiers here. He does not say "if it is my Father's will". He says "anything you ask for".

 

[Seth]

I found this..

Several key understandings are implicit in this passage.
First, because the Lord is present when 2 or 3 of his disciples are gathered together, his power and authority are present, too.
Second, the power of 2 or 3 to agree is not a general statement -- in other words, this is not a blanket promise that if two Christians agree about something, God will have to carry it out. It is in the context of church discipline, sin, and fellowship that this applies.
Third, because the power and the authority of the Lord are present, the agreement between these Christians is a reflection of what has already happened in heaven, not vice versa! (This is a key grammatical issue that most conservative scholarly commentaries can help us understand.)
The Lord is present when his people gather together. The fellowship they share is vital. The decisions that are made under the Lord's guidance by those gathered reflect those in heaven. To put it succinctly: Jesus wants his disciples to be a redemptive community of character.

 

[EvilSeph]

The Bible does not say that, though. That is merely someone's interpretation of it. FreePlay is referring to the literal meaning. Interpretation can be stretched widely and still make sense.

 

[TacticalPenguin]

The bible is a book. That is all we can guarantee and legitimately assume that it is. Fiction or non-fiction, it does not matter - we do not know, cannot find out, and never will know. Nobody knows if God exists, lots of people have theories, nobody has answers. That's all I see to it and I don't know why you argue about it when neither side has any proof other than hope for the best from religious people and refusing the benefit of the doubt from nonreligious people.

What's the purpose of this thread, again?

 

[EvilSeph]

What is the purpose of every thread?

The internet is filled with things that you would find in a book that people can and cannot prove, and yet they try. That is how we evolve, how we invent, how we create.

Humans are curious. We are filled with questions and this thread helps to answer some of them. This thread has no purpose but to talk of God and everything associated with it.

What is the purpose of anything? There is no line to be drawn with such questions.

An opinion is exactly that. Facts are not needed to prove an opinion, proof and analysis are. That is all.

Why does this thread exist? Because it does. Why do we ask questions that no one may possibly know the answers to? Because we can.

Do not pretend you are above everyone else and nonchalantly dismiss everyones' opinions and thoughts simply because you feel that there is no way to prove them. Others may feel otherwise.

If this thread had no purpose, we would not be on the 4th page (with my settings) already. So, clearly, this thread has a purpose.

 

[FrozenIpaq]

Tactical Penguin - ever heard of the term "philosophy"?

 

[MiKeY188]

1. If you believe in god you do not believe him to be a man
2. Proof?
3. What? :/
4. Although you said it crudely I have to agree.

And Matt, do you wanna reply to my statement just above yours?

Proof? i dont need proof its a load of crap sorry.

Why do you guys go to Mass? well those that do.

Just think of all the stuff your missing out on 1 hour a week for the rest of your life thats alot of time wasted in your life listening to a priest that says the same thing every day and every year.

The funny think is i do go to mass only because im forced xD

 

[NeilR]

Just think of all the stuff your missing out on 1 hour a week for the rest of your life thats alot of time wasted in your life listening to a priest that says the same thing every day and every year.

Well you see that's purely by preference. Some people don't see it as a waste of their time. In fact some people spend more than an hour a week at church on their own terms. I don't go to church except for special occasions (weddings etc..) but if some people get something out of it then good for them.

 

[MiKeY188]

Well you see that's purely by preference. Some people don't see it as a waste of their time. In fact some people spend more than an hour a week at church on their own terms. I don't go to church except for special occasions (weddings etc..) but if some people get something out of it then good for them.

I see your point, why dont you go on special occasions. I mainly go to funerals.
I hate the thought of more than an hour a week. My mum nags to try get me up my dad ends up kicking me out xD

 

[NeilR]

Oops I meant "I don't go to church except for special occasions..."

post edited

 

[MiKeY188]

lol i was wondering why your first post sounded so mistaken.

 

[Greyone]

Just think of all the stuff your missing out on 1 hour a week for the rest of your life thats alot of time wasted in your life listening to a priest that says the same thing every day and every year.

Christian churches are way different

 

[Nero]

Dear Matt,
I've spent an awful amount of time, reading your posts in this thread today because I have HSV-1 (Facial herpes) and I'm not going to a Halloween costume party or contest of any sort, just to make sure no one is going to get infected by the disease that I carry with me, inside my skin. I would love to hear your opinion about why has this God of yours created sickness and despair.
But I'm just going to, hypothetically, say that God with all its powers didn't predict or maybe he was cruel enough to create us this weak and watch us suffer everyday - you decide. I'm going to stop questioning everything like a mad man. Or the so called 'sinner'.

I have spent endless hours reading the Koran, I have read parts of the Bible and I have my own way of thinking about God and religion.

The Koran (the book of God, from Mohammad his prophet) was 'published' (for the lack of a better word) after the Bible and I'm quoting it right here:

(More about the same topic on "Every Christian should read")
Was Koran made just to declare a war between the Eastern and the Western, which is still on the run, or was Mohammad in fact a true messenger of God who was chosen after his endless weeks in the Harra cave at the age of 40 -- given strict notes from Gabriel, the God's angle which became the written book: Koran?
You will never know. Neither will I or anyone else because it was over 1387 years ago that it had happened.

I know this because I've researched everything. I've listened to different opinions. I've spent the time fighting my own ideas about God and any religion I was trying to fit in at the time.
Maybe, and just maybe -- instead of being stubborn with one trail of thought you should just listen to what others have to say, as life is in fact short and you and I, both, should have the flexability to listen instead of running away from a conversation that one day might change your life.

My point is that if you're a Christian then why don't you believe in Islam and deal with their rules. Isn't Islam the superior religion of all, and from the same known God?

I personally don't believe in any of the religions out there, I am, however, impressed by the genius that's been put into those pieces by brilliant minds that are better than yours, mine and most of the people who we'd encounter everyday.

So,
God? I can't disapprove on, neither I can approve on.
Religion? I can only say that words can fool you away.

If a person has never got a chance to embrace islam or hasn't been taught islam in a intelligent manner, god will judge him/her by their deeds and make a decision. But today with all the media and the internet to research there is no excuse to say that you did not have a chance to choose islam as your religion.

You say God has created many of us weak and make us suffer everyday. But what would be the point if everything in this world was perfect? Whats the point in the hereafter? It would be so easy to go to heaven. The key thing that god wants from us is patience, our prophet had infinite amount of patience and we should try and follow that. The poor people with no roof over their heads, no food to eat they do have patience, whilst most rich people don't. God says the poor will enter paradise 500 years earlier than the rich (depends on how some spent their money).

You said that we will never know if that really happened, it was the word of god brought down by the angel Jibraeel and God promised that the quran will not get corrupted like the past books such as the Bible and Torah, by this he gives millions of muslims the ability to learn the quran by heart with full and perfect pronunciation.

And i would also like to say that the quran actually challenges the reader to pick out a fault from it, many scientist have converted to islam due to scientific evidence that is in the quran, e.g. it tells exactly how the baby is formed inside the mothers womb and this was written over 1428 years ago.

So i think it was written by the holy prophet, not just some mad man.

edit: why has Nimsical's post been deleted? i dont see it anywhere.

 

[Teowulf]

If a person has never got a chance to embrace islam or hasn't been taught islam in a intelligent manner, god will judge him/her by their deeds and make a decision. But today with all the media and the internet to research there is no excuse to say that you did not have a chance to choose islam as your religion.

You say God has created many of us weak and make us suffer everyday. But what would be the point if everything in this world was perfect? Whats the point in the hereafter? It would be so easy to go to heaven. The key thing that god wants from us is patience, our prophet had infinite amount of patience and we should try and follow that. The poor people with no roof over their heads, no food to eat they do have patience, whilst most rich people don't. God says the poor will enter paradise 500 years earlier than the rich (depends on how some spent their money).

You said that we will never know if that really happened, it was the word of god brought down by the angel Jibraeel and God promised that the quran will not get corrupted like the past books such as the Bible and Torah, by this he gives millions of muslims the ability to learn the quran by heart with full and perfect pronunciation.

And i would also like to say that the quran actually challenges the reader to pick out a fault from it, many scientist have converted to islam due to scientific evidence that is in the quran, e.g. it tells exactly how the baby is formed inside the mothers womb and this was written over 1428 years ago.

So i think it was written by the holy prophet, not just some mad man.

edit: why has Nimsical's post been deleted? i dont see it anywhere.

It's still there- post 138.

 

[Serideth]

Let's put the prayer thing to the test, shall we?

Matthew 18:18-20. Jesus speaking.



So go ahead, Matt. Get together with a couple other Christians. Pray in Christ's name that something visible and immediate and objectively real happens.

"Do not put the Lord your God to the test."

~Deuteronomy 6:16


The bible has many loopoles for getting itself out of trouble.

 

[eldiablov]

Nero - Who would choose Islam as their religion with all the shitty publicity it is continually getting? If anything, the media coverage is driving everybody away from the religion.