Why make HB at all (was: OT from PS3-Pong release thread)

[KezraPlanes]

Nice work Lachrymose but I'm sure you're just fighting against the tide.

This hack is for piracy purposes only... The PSP Scene was a once in a lifetime thing.

 

[Greyone]

Nice work Lachrymose but I'm sure you're just fighting against the tide.

This hack is for piracy purposes only... The PSP Scene was a once in a lifetime thing.

Do you always have to be so negative. :|

 

[KezraPlanes]

Do you always have to be so negative. :|

I'm not being negative, I'm being realistic.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I doubt I will...

If you want to make games for people that actually want to play them, go indie.

 

[Greyone]

If you want to make games for people that actually want to play them, go indie.

What that makes no sense. I have no idea what you're implying. Indie games still get pirated, being an "indie" game has no relation to how good it is, and not everyone has money for dev kits.

 

[x3sphere]

Nice work Lachrymose but I'm sure you're just fighting against the tide.

This hack is for piracy purposes only... The PSP Scene was a once in a lifetime thing.

PSP is hardly the only 'successful' homebrew scene, look at the Wii. I think the PS3 has potential, just give it time - this is only the beginning.

Anyways, this discussion is diverting from the focus of the thread. Stay on topic guys

 

[KezraPlanes]

What that makes no sense. I have no idea what you're implying. Indie games still get pirated, being an "indie" game has no relation to how good it is, and not everyone has money for dev kits.

Why doesn't it make sense? You're the one who's not making sense. I never said anything about piracy in indie games nor did I question the quality. Did you even read what I said?

And to try and reply to what you said, I think you're confusing indie with small dev teams. Why would you need a devkit to make games in the first place? Start off in the PC, make your game free or ask people to pay a small compensation for your hard work (if you feel you need to). At least in the indie scene people appriciate your work and there are tons of contests and stuff to participate in so you can test your skills against others. You won't find any of that in any homebrew scene.

The question I posed was: would you rather make games for ungrateful brats or people who actually care for what you do?

/offtopic

 

[Hellcat]

Sheesh, Kezzy, what is with your attitude lately?

[one last sentence of OT]

PS3 has the potential to get a HB scene like PSP or Wii....
Free, legal, OpenSource SDK already shimmers on the horizon.

[/one last sentence of OT]


[on-topic mode=ON]

OK, I tried it
Quite nice for the first HB ever (I don't count that Pirate-Manager as HB).

Is it intention that the title says "Test"?

Tested on two TVs:

4:3 CRT: the paddles of both players are off-screen
16:9 LCD: nicey (The "S" of "Score" is 50% off-screen though)


Any chance of getting a lurk-in at the source?

 

[KezraPlanes]

Sheesh, Kezzy, what is with your attitude lately?

Nothing's wrong with me.

I just think it's pointless to put so much hope in something that's going to die quicker than it appeared. But again that's only my opinion. But as someone said on these forums some time ago, "is homebrew really worth it?" for users maybe, for developers, absolutely not.

 

[Hellcat]

for developers, absolutely not.

You forget the key reason for HB devs making HBs at all: "Because they CAN, because they enjoy the actual MAKING (coding) of it."

Like "the way it the goal".

It's not "for the users" or that. It's because the actual process of creating it is the hobby that is the fun factor.

Of course there's ppl only doing it for fame, sure. But they usually also produce low-quallity anyway, so what.

 

[slicer4ever]

for users maybe, for developers, absolutely not.

what are you talking about, their's tons of devs whom without homebrew would NEVER get the chance to develop on a high end console, and can distribute it knowing that it'll work on that console no matter what, you can't get that with the pc, their's too many variables to try and make a game run on every single pc, but their's no extra variables with a console

 

[KezraPlanes]

You forget the key reason for HB devs making HBs at all: "Because they CAN, because they enjoy the actual MAKING (coding) of it."

Like "the way it the goal".

It's not "for the users" or that. It's because the actual process of creating it is the hobby that is the fun factor.

Of course there's ppl only doing it for fame, sure. But they usually also produce low-quallity anyway, so what.

I just think it's pointless to code something just because. If you make a game, what's the point of making it if no one is going to try it? What's the point of making something no one else will enjoy? For ego purposes? It's just weird

I understand what you say, but it just doesn't make sense to me. In my view, games are made for gamers to enjoy, not to boost my ego, and think "yeah, I'm able to do it."

what are you talking about, their's tons of devs whom without homebrew would NEVER get the chance to develop on a high end console, and can distribute it knowing that it'll work on that console no matter what, you can't get that with the pc, their's too many variables to try and make a game run on every single pc, but their's no extra variables with a console

But homebrew doesn't give them the same visibility as true indie for 4 reasons.

1) It's just a fad.
2) Console hacks are for piracy.
3) Userbase is horrid.
4) At least you can take full advantage of the PC platform because the SDK lets you. Homebrew SDKs as far as I've seen are limited.

For example, do you think Cave Story devs got their game on WiiWare just because? No. They made a pretty good game people liked, they got money for it even thouhg the game was free, they were able to afford publication on WiiWare, and now they can program on a high end console. Not only that, now they have an awesome community backing them up. Same goes for N (which became N+) and flOw, though in the case of the flOw devs (thatgamecompany) they didn't succeed as they wanted in the PC (they still got awards though, even if it was a student project) and moved on to PSN where they hit the bigtime.

 

[Hellcat]

Yeah, you're no (HB) dev, so you might indeed have a hard time understanding it.

Like I said, the point the actual MAKING.
Enjoying the coding, the challange of making THAT device do what YOU want and in the end having the good feeling of "I did it" - no matter if ppl play it or not (sure, it's more nice if they do )

Like a musician enjoys playing music, he does it in his room/studio where no one hears him and he doesn't record it - he just enjoys the playing.
Same thing with coding, just trust me here

 

[slicer4ever]

I just think it's pointless to code something just because. If you make a game, what's the point of making it if no one is going to try it? What's the point of making something no one else will enjoy? For ego purposes? It's just weird



And so they bet on a fad?

I understand what you say, but it just doesn't make sense to me. In my view, games are made for gamers to enjoy, not to boost my ego, and think "yeah, I'm able to do it."

your the only one saying that this is a "fad", from my point of view, i would care less if anyone could play my games, i'd rather have the opportunity to develop for a system that is cutting edge, something that i can push to the edge and see if it can handle what i throw at it, if i make something fun along the way, well, it's all fun to devs to build it, rather than if people play it

 

[KezraPlanes]

What you're both telling me them is that you just want to stroke your egos, just for the sake of it.

THAT I can understand.

I'm might be no homebrew coder yes. But I do have a passion for creating games and more importantly, experiences that people will remember and enjoy. That's why for me, ego stroking is the same as nothing because I don't get anything from creating something no one will enjoy.

 

[Hellcat]

No, you understand nothing.

How is it "stroking one's ego" if one dosn't really care?
If one simply enjoys the making - like the playing music. What does that have to do with ego?
I get the impression you do not want to understand....

 

[KezraPlanes]

No, you understand nothing.

How is it "stroking one's ego" if one dosn't really care?
If one simply enjoys the making - like the playing music. What does that have to do with ego?
I get the impression you do not want to understand....

If you didn't care you wouldn't get any enjoyment from it. I highly doubt that's the case. When you're playing music (and enjoy doing it) your ego (also known as your inner self) gets enjoyment from doing it because it makes you feel good. Therefore you ARE boosting your ego, even if you have no idea.

P.S. Thanks for creating a thread for this Hellcat, this is becoming an interesting discussion But I think it would be more suited in the "Smart Talk" section xD

 

[Hellcat]

If you didn't care you wouldn't get any enjoyment from it.

Well, I would get enjoyment from the actual making - the not caring was pointed at (other) people enjoying it as well after I am finished with my own creative process.

When you're playing music (and enjoy doing it) your ego (also known as your inner self) gets enjoyment from doing it because it makes you feel good.

OK, now that you phrase it THAT way, yes that's pretty much it. It makes you feel good and you have fun doing it.
So I got your meaning of "boosting ones ego" wrong.

P.S. Thanks for creating a thread for this Hellcat, this is becoming an interesting discussion But I think it would be more suited in the "Smart Talk" section xD

Yeah, it went big-time OT by being a quallity discussion of itself - couldn't just delete it
Hm, smart-talk, yeah, can still move it there if we feel it really fits better in there

 

[LocutusEstBorg]

The only homebrew I found useful on the PSP was stuff that extended it's shortcomings or stuff that cleanly added features. Most "apps" were too low quality or simply couldn't provide a satisfactory experience compared to something professionally done. The effort required is too great and that's part of the reason why the apps I make rarely have a GUI and are usually stuff that runs in the background. At least then I know what's done is done in the best way without compromise.

 

[KezraPlanes]

That's not to say there is no quality in the any HB Scene though.

The NoGravity devs would have never gotten the chance to publish on the PSN if it weren't for the HB Scene. Yet, the HB version of their game was obviously limited and the best thing that happened to them was going official.

 

[x3sphere]

That's not to say there is no quality in the any HB Scene though.

The NoGravity devs would have never gotten the chance to publish on the PSN if it weren't for the HB Scene. Yet, the HB version of their game was obviously limited and the best thing that happened to them was going official.

Yes, I was just about to mention Realtech VR. Releasing homebrew gave them a head-start and more importantly, a fanbase. It received much more attention based on the fact it was originally released as HB.

I think the HB scene gives devs a chance to make a name for themselves. Of course, most aren't in it for fame, only the thrill and challenge. But with devs like Realtech VR that have the potential to go pro - without homebrew they might've never been able to break through.

Sure, with PC there are essentially no limitations but the competition is vast. I have a feeling if No Gravity was released on PC it would've gone overlooked.