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Why make HB at all (was: OT from PS3-Pong release thread)

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x3sphere said:
I think the HB scene gives devs a chance to make a name for themselves. Of course, most aren't in it for fame, only the thrill and challenge. But with devs like Realtech VR that have the potential to go pro - without homebrew they might've never been able to break through.
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I don't think HB gets them that much notoriety however...
 
Why make Homebrew at all? Well, I am into creating games for my own purpose for PC. I have quite a few projects on the go, and it doesn't take much effort to port them to ps3, so why not? Thanks for your opinion, but I think people are just waiting for the legal sdk. Once a couple emulators start popping up things will get rolling.

Look at the Xbox 360 JTAG hack. Almost nobody has one, but they have quite a few great emulators even though it's mainly focused on piracy and cheating.
 
KezraPlanes said:
At least in the indie scene people appriciate your work and there are tons of contests and stuff to participate in so you can test your skills against others. You won't find any of that in any homebrew scene.
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There are plenty of people in homebrew scenes that appreciate developer's work. You are obsessed with the idea that the scene is full of nothing but thumb sucking children, which simply isn't true. Ironically, you are the only one in a long while that is coming across as whining.

There have also been many mature coders involved at one point or another who have taken the time to get into homebrew contests as well as help set them up, with prizes for the winners.

Granted, it isn't for everyone and the audience is a mixed bag. But you should expect different reactions when releasing work for free. It is a sad but true fact that something's worth often dictates the feedback and treatment you receive from people, and if you really don't like this then stay well away from it.
 
x3sphere said:
Of course, most aren't in it for fame, only the thrill and challenge.
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Yeah, what make videogame consoles more interesting than PC to dev on is they are just.... "different", not everyday-everyone-dev material.
Everyone can dev on the PC, there's tools that make it as easy as building a Lego model.
Dev'ing on videogame consoles is more challanging and different and thus more fun to do.


eldiablov said:
There are plenty of people in homebrew scenes that appreciate developer's work.
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I can only 2nd that and for the PSP HB community as well.
There ARE people who appreciate what they get, and not few of them - I've seen them.
 
KezraPlanes said:
I just think it's pointless to code something just because. If you make a game, what's the point of making it if no one is going to try it? What's the point of making something no one else will enjoy? For ego purposes? It's just weird o.O

I understand what you say, but it just doesn't make sense to me. In my view, games are made for gamers to enjoy, not to boost my ego, and think "yeah, I'm able to do it."
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You not being a developer just shows me that you won't understand what it's like to just code something for fun. That's what most devs do, they could for fun. Being able to distribute your game to others is a perk of being a developer.
To just be able to make something and tell yourself, look I was able to make this on my own.
 
eldiablov said:
Ironically, you are the only one in a long while that is coming across as whining.

Granted, it isn't for everyone and the audience is a mixed bag.
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Yup. When it comes to the PSP Homebrew Scene I love to call the wah-mbulance, and I'll keep on doing it until it turns decent or dies, and I'm sure that (unfortunately) the PS3 Scene will be a damn clone. And yeah, it is a mixed bag. Of piss, s* and puke.


Robby said:
You not being a developer just shows me that you won't understand what it's like to just code something for fun. That's what most devs do, they could for fun. Being able to distribute your game to others is a perk of being a developer.
To just be able to make something and tell yourself, look I was able to make this on my own.
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Wrong. I am a developer (at least I consider myself one) but I am NOT a coder. Those are two completely different things. And I've coded in the past for fun when I was learning, but it was so much more fun when people actually tried my creations. THAT made me feel proud.
But as a developer what I do is design, I create the experience that players are going feel in the game, and it's pretty damn fun to di it. Specially when you work with limitation (aka PSP minis program) it's actually awesome when you can include in the game something that wasn't supposed to be there due to limitations. My objective is to give the players the best and most complete experience possible, and if allowed, that's what I'll do everytime because I love doing it. Though that's something you wouldn't understand since you aren't a developer.
 
KezraPlanes said:
Yup. When it comes to the PSP Homebrew Scene I love to call the wah-mbulance, and I'll keep on doing it until it turns decent or dies, and I'm sure that (unfortunately) the PS3 Scene will be a damn clone. And yeah, it is a mixed bag. Of piss, s* and puke.
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It IS already dead, you're flogging a dead horse. Nobody gives a fuck about the PSP anymore, which is why it's so annoying to see you keep going on about it. There WERE great times in the scene, but nobody expected it to last forever.
 
eldiablov said:
It IS already dead, you're flogging a dead horse. Nobody gives a fuck about the PSP anymore, which is why it's so annoying to see you keep going on about it. There WERE great times in the scene, but nobody expected it to last forever.
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It's not really dead tbh. There's still tons of piracy related tools being release as Scene material. And that pretty much pisses me off. But sure, I'll stop D:
 
KezraPlanes is just an enormous Playstation/Sony fanboy and doesn't want to see his precious PS3 games being pirated...too fucking bad.
 
ilyace said:
KezraPlanes is just an enormous Playstation/Sony fanboy and doesn't want to see his precious PS3 games being pirated...too fucking bad.
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Actually no... I'm against piracy in general, doesn't matter the platform... And could you drop the fanboy talk? It stopped being funny a long time ago...

But I am a HUGE SEGA fanboy actually. Even though those fuckers screwed themselves up D:

My upcoming video retro review is of a classic SEGA game actually.
 
KezraPlanes said:
Actually no... I'm against piracy in general, doesn't matter the platform... And could you drop the fanboy talk? It stopped being funny a long time ago...

But I am a HUGE SEGA fanboy actually. Even though those fuckers screwed themselves up D:

My upcoming video retro review is of a classic SEGA game actually.
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I'm not trying to be funny at all, but you do such a good job of showing it off and making it really obvious.
 
ilyace said:
I'm not trying to be funny at all, but you do such a good job of showing it off and making it really obvious.
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Maybe I exagerate a little but I'm no Sony fanboy >.< I do have a preference for Sony however, so I do show more interest in Sony stuff, I think that's logical xD

Can you just call me a SEGA fanboy? That way I won't care and we can move on. Please? I'll try to be a little more moderate in exchange...
 
Homebrew is essentially the creation or "brewing" of software or games at home or "in your own garage" (i.e. not by a studio or a business). It is usually a process that is done as a side thing, a hobby and sometimes in the hopes of earning some money but it is rarely, if ever, a serious venture to make a living. Once that happens, it is no longer homebrewing and becomes a job or an indie movement.

Why make homebrew at all? It's quite simple: because I/we can.

Until you become a Developer yourself, you're unlikely to completely grasp the passion and love we have for making something out of nothing on a device we're so interested in, it's as if it were a rock we can find an infinite amount of uses for. To us, the device is indefinitely transforming and improving - that is, until we get bored of it. Where someone sees an electronic device like a PSP or someone sees a rock, we see the potential and many things we can make the device or rock do to achieve something it wasn't specifically made for.

It's not about ego. Not at all. In fact, I resent that remark. It's really simple - at least for me: I'm a Developer because I love expanding the horizons of anything I can get my hands on or I enjoy bypassing any restrictions people put on me/the manufacturer puts on the device.

I do not develop for you or anyone else.
I do not develop for recognition.
I do not develop to fuel my ego.
I do not develop for money.

I have accomplished so much with many different devices, including the PSP, but I choose not to share it. I was considering sharing my work with the PSP Scene, but the attitude that infested it sickened me. In the end, it doesn't matter because I and many others develop for ourselves and if we decide to release it, it's usually as a "I found this cool/useful, maybe you will". Personally, I don't tend to support such releases, but there is the time when I release something and support it with updates, etc. just because I can spare the time. I haven't ever released anything expecting praise for my work and I'm sure the same applies to many others. Still, I won't lie and say it isn't nice when you go online and find your work spreading like wildfire.

I develop things for myself and my own entertainment. I enjoy developing. It is called a hobby and I strongly disagree with your sentiment that people play music to stroke their ego. Sure, some do, I'm not going to disagree with that. But the majority of people play music simply because they enjoy doing it. It makes them feel alive, free, gives them an escape from reality and so on.

I love reading. Do I do it to prove to myself that I am good at reading? No, of course not. Doing so would be ridiculous and I think I'd need some professional help as a result.

I love singing. Do I do it to prove to myself or anyone else that I'm good at singing? No, I just do it because I enjoy it. I already know I'm good at it, I don't need any validation.

I love writing.... you get the point.

The same could be applied to *any* hobby. So, why then, can't the same be applied to (homebrew) development?

As for whether or not you're a Developer - you aren't - by definition. In fact, you're most likely considered a story writer/a writer by your description of what you do. Besides, I'm sure everyone, including yourself, understood what was meant by the use of the term Developer in this context anyway. In your case, as a story writer, I can see where you are coming from and why you feel this way. Writing is meant to be shared and enjoyed by others. Some writers can produce work simply for themselves but most get their enjoyment from having others reading and experience their creativity not just reading their work themselves.

Still, with all that out of the way, homebrew development is a great way to showcase your talent to large corporations and if you bring innovation and quality to the Scene or the market, you're likely to be noticed and often even approached with interest. I was and I know many homebrew developers in several Scenes or areas who have.

At the end of the day, all the work I've done can still be put to use in a portfolio, so none of my time is wasted if you want to look at it that way.

I don't think "Why make HB at all" is the best question because I feel like the same Developers you are asking the question to would be Developing things regardless of the answer. I think a better question would be: "Why release your work at all?" Now there's a topic I'd like to pick some brains on.
 
EvilSeph said:
Homebrew is essentially the creation or "brewing" of software or games at home or "in your own garage" (i.e. not by a studio or a business). It is usually a process that is done as a side thing, a hobby and sometimes in the hopes of earning some money but it is rarely, if ever, a serious venture to make a living. Once that happens, it is no longer homebrewing and becomes a job or an indie movement.

Why make homebrew at all? It's quite simple: because I/we can.

Until you become a Developer yourself, you're unlikely to completely grasp the passion and love we have for making something out of nothing on a device we're so interested in, it's as if it were a rock we can find an infinite amount of uses for. To us, the device is indefinitely transforming and improving - that is, until we get bored of it. Where someone sees an electronic device like a PSP or someone sees a rock, we see the potential and many things we can make the device or rock do to achieve something it wasn't specifically made for.

It's not about ego. Not at all. In fact, I resent that remark. It's really simple - at least for me: I'm a Developer because I love expanding the horizons of anything I can get my hands on or I enjoy bypassing any restrictions people put on me/the manufacturer puts on the device.

I do not develop for you or anyone else.
I do not develop for recognition.
I do not develop to fuel my ego.
I do not develop for money.

I have accomplished so much with many different devices, including the PSP, but I choose not to share it. I was considering sharing my work with the PSP Scene, but the attitude that infested it sickened me. In the end, it doesn't matter because I and many others develop for ourselves and if we decide to release it, it's usually as a "I found this cool/useful, maybe you will". Personally, I don't tend to support such releases, but there is the time when I release something and support it with updates, etc. just because I can spare the time. I haven't ever released anything expecting praise for my work and I'm sure the same applies to many others. Still, I won't lie and say it isn't nice when you go online and find your work spreading like wildfire.

I develop things for myself and my own entertainment. I enjoy developing. It is called a hobby and I strongly disagree with your sentiment that people play music to stroke their ego. Sure, some do, I'm not going to disagree with that. But the majority of people play music simply because they enjoy doing it. It makes them feel alive, free, gives them an escape from reality and so on.

I love reading. Do I do it to prove to myself that I am good at reading? No, of course not. Doing so would be ridiculous and I think I'd need some professional help as a result.

I love singing. Do I do it to prove to myself or anyone else that I'm good at singing? No, I just do it because I enjoy it. I already know I'm good at it, I don't need any validation.

I love writing.... you get the point.

The same could be applied to *any* hobby. So, why then, can't the same be applied to (homebrew) development?

As for whether or not you're a Developer - you aren't - by definition. In fact, you're most likely considered a story writer/a writer by your description of what you do. Besides, I'm sure everyone, including yourself, understood what was meant by the use of the term Developer in this context anyway. In your case, as a story writer, I can see where you are coming from and why you feel this way. Writing is meant to be shared and enjoyed by others. Some writers can produce work simply for themselves but most get their enjoyment from having others reading and experience their creativity not just reading their work themselves.

Still, with all that out of the way, homebrew development is a great way to showcase your talent to large corporations and if you bring innovation and quality to the Scene or the market, you're likely to be noticed and often even approached with interest. I was and I know many homebrew developers in several Scenes or areas who have.

At the end of the day, all the work I've done can still be put to use in a portfolio, so none of my time is wasted if you want to look at it that way.

I don't think "Why make HB at all" is the best question because I feel like the same Developers you are asking the question to would be Developing things regardless of the answer. I think a better question would be: "Why release your work at all?" Now there's a topic I'd like to pick some brains on.
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You sir just won this thread.

But a correction, a designer (different from a writer) IS a developer in the literal meaning of the term.

Otherwise, you just won the trhead.
 
KezraPlanes said:
Wrong. I am a developer (at least I consider myself one) but I am NOT a coder. Those are two completely different things. And I've coded in the past for fun when I was learning, but it was so much more fun when people actually tried my creations. THAT made me feel proud.
But as a developer what I do is design, I create the experience that players are going feel in the game, and it's pretty damn fun to di it. Specially when you work with limitation (aka PSP minis program) it's actually awesome when you can include in the game something that wasn't supposed to be there due to limitations. My objective is to give the players the best and most complete experience possible, and if allowed, that's what I'll do everytime because I love doing it. Though that's something you wouldn't understand since you aren't a developer.
Click to expand...
You are a designer, not a developer. Designer is someone that gives his ideas to the actual developers who then turn those ideas into something.
So that still explains why you don't understand the joy of making something just because.
eldiablov said:
It IS already dead, you're flogging a dead horse. Nobody gives a fuck about the PSP anymore, which is why it's so annoying to see you keep going on about it. There WERE great times in the scene, but nobody expected it to last forever.
Click to expand...

This.
 
Robby said:
You are a designer, not a developer. Designer is someone that gives his ideas to the actual developers who then turn those ideas into something.
So that still explains why you don't understand the joy of making something just because.
Click to expand...


Game design, a subset of game development, is the process of designing the content and rules of a game in the pre-production stage and design of gameplay, environment, and storyline during production stage. The term is also used to describe both the game design embodied in a game as well as documentation that describes such a design. Game design requires artistic and technical competence as well as writing skills.
 
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