God Talk

[eldiablov]

Do anesthetic people believe that a sole is real?

I agree with what you said other than this as an anesthetic is an injection designed to knock you out for while and sole is the bottom of a shoe ...

It's not just relating to people etc that I find amazing, it is our ability to wonder and self awareness.

Also, the only time god comes into it for me is two unexplainable questions: How did everything start, what happens when we die. And that's prety much it.

 

[Terra]

I agree with what you said other than this as an anesthetic is an injection designed to knock you out for while and sole is the bottom of a shoe ...

It's not just relating to people etc that I find amazing, it is our ability to wonder and self awareness.

Also, the only time god comes into it for me is two unexplainable questions: How did everything start, what happens when we die. And that's prety much it.

I think when you allow yourself to sink into these questions & you come up empty, I reflect on an earlier point about how would God explain it to a group of people that haven't even got past the time & distance thing. Latter day shepherds if you like.
I think we are definitely at a transitional period. As in Nomads to pyramids to sailing ships to space & now we have artificial intelligence that may well start taking the quantum out of quantum physics. Accurate Molecular reconstruction is probable as well.
But when I look at some simple issues, like using the destruction of fuel as propulsion, when we have a gravitational pull. A magnetic field & several other forms of natural "Force", I tend to think we're a long way from understanding how the next dimension works.

When they landed on the moon, I became engrossed in the information about what was needed to get out of our own atmosphere. I couldn't believe how brief the excursion was & I said at the time "It won't be long now, We'll board an aircraft, they shoot us straight up into space & we'll use the earths rotational force to get where we want to go. It will be like catching a suburban tram."
Here we are, 40 years later & we still need a squillion gallons of rocket fuel to travel a 100 miles of so.

I wouldn't worry about how it all began because that information will come when we are capable harnessing what is available to us now.

 

[madsoul]

Not really sure if this has been talked about but how does one explain this...

the brains ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people.

Can evolution or anything else other than a higher intelligence explain this?

why cant it just be that our brain is way way WAY more complicated for us to never know how it truly works? our brain is almost as uncovered as our universe it self.

we are the higher intelligence, but not high enough to understand how our brain works.

Also this has been I thought to my self for a while...Why is it that we put all the body parts together but never have life? No pulse. Could it be a soul that missing?

Do anesthetic people believe that a sole is real?

i dont believe in a soul. i believe in a complicated lifeform that has had time to develop itself through millions of years. maybe our "soul" is our brain since there is where our personality is formed? life is life and i dont think there is any higher meaning to that. we just exists since the rules of our universe makes it possible for life to form on a certain level. there is nothing more amazing to it. it just is. but at the same time, the world is even more amazing if you think of it without an inteligent force behind it. everything just are and have allways been. maybe un a diferent universe or dimention there are other rules.

 

[madsoul]

Also, the only time god comes into it for me is two unexplainable questions: How did everything start, what happens when we die. And that's prety much it.

these are the questions i personally have no problem answering based on my belief.

why did it have to start somewhere...? if scientists thinks the universe is endless then why cant it have existed forever? the universe was endless even before the big bang.

and when we die we die. just like we didnt exists before we where born. our brain is our personality and when it do not work anymore we ofcourse die. i cant see whats so hard about thinking that way. ofcourse i cant actually now what happens but in my mind its pretty much the truth. and therefor, enjoy life as much as you can!

 

[Terra]

No soul?

What if the soul is a blueprint of a very unique species. Something that is like a radio wave that drifts until it's picked up, or hovers awaiting acceptance, or even remains in transit, influencing vibrations with similar frequencies.

The intangible things like dejavu, why stroke victims emerge from there suspension speaking foreign languages. 3-4-5 year olds playing complicated music.

In my previous post I mentioned our infancy with time & travel. There is a strange irony with today's youth as opposed to adult "Reality"

Video games are "taking" them to places of excitement, & happiness. & exposing them to non-dangerous physical risks.

"Thought" travels faster than anything we can comprehend.

If we could transport our soul & combine our imagination without moving our physical blood & bone, all we'd need is a map.

but once again, it cannot be physically proven that a soul exists.

Makes you wonder why all the amazing things are so intangible eh? well maybe not, if we work out why they're intangible instead or how to expose them, we just might be able to do it,,, without even a computer.

 

[eldiablov]

and when we die we die

That is the one thing I cannot accept. Its hard to explain why but I wonder what happens to your soul, your "inner being" if you will. I refuse to believe you cease to function like a machine.

 

[Abe Froeman]

That is the one thing I cannot accept. Its hard to explain why but I wonder what happens to your soul, your "inner being" if you will. I refuse to believe you cease to function like a machine.

I flip-flop on this issue as well. Some days I like to believe that you go on after death and others I think it just a lights out scenario just like every other biological being. Does a chimp or a gorilla have a soul? Or does there sense of awareness, like ours just end once the body and brain die? If there is nothing to biologically power your brain and awareness center, why and how would you be able to even know you are dead?

 

[eldiablov]

I suppose there are some things we arent supposed to understand. We shouldnt be ignorant enough to believe that we can discover everything within our lifetimes.

 

[FrozenIpaq]

I highly suggest anyone who is participating in this discussion that they look to take a Philosophy class of some sorts in their schooling. The philosophical arguements for and against the existence of God hasn't changed my religious views but they are definetly something everyone should look at when they get the chance. Throughout my childhood to now I've thought about several of these issues myself and am now finally finding an outlet for my philosophical ideas.

A lot of our perception relies on our senses and our ability to perceive images in our mind. I've always wondered that if a person where to not have any of their senses (couldn't smell, couldn't feel, couldn't hear, couldn't speak, couldn't taste) if they could pereceive of anything or if they could even "think". This would provide proof to the existence of a possible "mind" or even possibly a soul.

 

[Vee]

So let me get this straight;

Freeplay, you believe that the reason we are here how we are, is due to luck? One thing mixed with another and kaboom, here comes the humans?

I just GENUINELY believe that for such a beautiful creation to be made, something must have created it.

 

[madsoul]

That is the one thing I cannot accept. Its hard to explain why but I wonder what happens to your soul, your "inner being" if you will.

my "inner being" is my brain. its so complex and amazing that i am almost 100% sure its all in my head and that there is no "soul". its all electrical impulses in my brain. thats why some people who has somehow hurt there brain in an accident maybe lose certain abillities or characteristics. its all in our head.

we are one hell of a machine. a machine that life itself has developed for millions of year through trail and error.

 

[Moose]

So let me get this straight;

Freeplay, you believe that the reason we are here how we are, is due to luck? One thing mixed with another and kaboom, here comes the humans?

I just GENUINELY believe that for such a beautiful creation to be made, something must have created it.

You believe something equally outrageous... no offense.

 

[madsoul]

I just GENUINELY believe that for such a beautiful creation to be made, something must have created it.

why are we humans such a beautiful creation? we humans can only think on our inteligent level so OFCOURSE we think WE are the best. we live inside our bubble, our reality. other creatures have a diferent realities.

 

[Ciaran]

I just GENUINELY believe that for such a beautiful creation to be made, something must have created it.

I assume something as beautiful as god has to come under this rule too?

 

[FreePlay]

You actually believe this?

It seems to me as if at least ONE species would have developed an alternative to a heart/brain or lungs(talking about land animals here) if this were the case.

Why?

It's clear that the development of a heart and brain is advantageous to the survival of a species. It's likely that it evolved early on, and most modern land animals just carry a variation of the theme.

FYI, jellyfish don't have brains...

Are religions successful because gods can't be disproved?

Yes.

So,, you've got proof that the Metaphysical doesn't exist?

As soon as you provide evidence that it does, I'll get around to disproving it.

Over the next 20 years, I became more accessible to things we can't physically pursue, by way of a sort of lateral thinking.
It opened up some very odd "Critical coincidences" that actually had me smiling.
It has gone from there.

Coincidences and things you can't explain do not logically mean that there is a god. It just means that there are coincidences and that you don't know everything.

"I can't explain it/don't understand it/can't figure out how it could have happened otherwise, thus God is involved" is a combination of logical fallacies called the argument from ignorance (or the "God of the Gaps" argument) and the argument from personal incredulity. Just because something is not explained does not mean it is unexplainable; and just because you don't understand something does not mean the explanation must be fantastic beyond reason.

Not really sure if this has been talked about but how does one explain this...

the brains ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people.

Can evolution or anything else other than a higher intelligence explain this?

Yes. Evolution explains it quite well.

Also this has been I thought to my self for a while...Why is it that we put all the body parts together but never have life? No pulse. Could it be a soul that missing?

No. Death causes degradation of the brain tissue, which makes it impossible for life to continue no matter how hard you try to start it up again. That's why you only have a few minutes to restart a person's heart after it stops - their brain is starved for oxygen and starts to break down. The brain controls much more than our external behavior; without a brain, a body can't even properly digest food, because there's no longer anything sending signals to the stomach to tell it to work its muscles.

Do anesthetic people believe that a sole is real?

Atheist? No.

Also, the only time god comes into it for me is two unexplainable questions: How did everything start, what happens when we die. And that's prety much it.

Again... unexplained does not mean unexplainable and it certainly doesn't mean god did it.

The exact nature of the beginning of the universe is still unknown. However, we're pretty sure we know what happens when you die. Anything other than the physical explanation is purely metaphysical conjecture and really isn't relevant to an objective answer.

No soul?

What if the soul is a blueprint of a very unique species. Something that is like a radio wave that drifts until it's picked up, or hovers awaiting acceptance, or even remains in transit, influencing vibrations with similar frequencies.

You're talking about DNA... and there's nothing metaphysical or intangible about it.

dejavu

This is nothing more than something familiar that triggers a vivid memory.

why stroke victims emerge from there suspension speaking foreign languages

This has never been demonstrated. People have, however, woken up with different accents.

3-4-5 year olds playing complicated music.

Nothing supernatural about savants.

"Thought" travels faster than anything we can comprehend.

Thought travels at the speed of an electric current.

Makes you wonder why all the amazing things are so intangible eh?

No. It makes me wonder why people bother postulating about them if there's no evidence they're even there. There are enough amazing things that actually exist to keep me occupied for a lifetime.

That is the one thing I cannot accept. Its hard to explain why but I wonder what happens to your soul, your "inner being" if you will. I refuse to believe you cease to function like a machine.

Argument from personal incredulity.

Just because you don't want something to be true doesn't mean it's not true.

I suppose there are some things we arent supposed to understand.

I don't believe this for a second, because it requires the existence of limitations placed on us by a higher intelligence.

I highly suggest anyone who is participating in this discussion that they look to take a Philosophy class of some sorts in their schooling. The philosophical arguements for and against the existence of God hasn't changed my religious views but they are definetly something everyone should look at when they get the chance. Throughout my childhood to now I've thought about several of these issues myself and am now finally finding an outlet for my philosophical ideas.

My philosophy has changed 180 degrees on this subject since I was a kid. I took a Philosophy of Religion class my last year in school; went in a believer and came out a believer. It's only been since then that I've ... woken up.

A lot of our perception relies on our senses and our ability to perceive images in our mind. I've always wondered that if a person where to not have any of their senses (couldn't smell, couldn't feel, couldn't hear, couldn't speak, couldn't taste) if they could pereceive of anything or if they could even "think". This would provide proof to the existence of a possible "mind" or even possibly a soul.

I wouldn't be so sure. Our brains function regardless of the presence of input. A person with no ability to take in external stimuli would probably just float around in their head in some sort of perpetual abstract dream state. I'm sure there'd still be plenty of activity in their brain.

So let me get this straight;

Freeplay, you believe that the reason we are here how we are, is due to luck? One thing mixed with another and kaboom, here comes the humans?

I just GENUINELY believe that for such a beautiful creation to be made, something must have created it.

It's not luck. It's natural selection. Genetic mutation is random, but the nonproductive mutations are weeded out due to making an organism less fit than its competitors.

Your argument that the world as it is MUST have been created is the same as seeing the result of an explosion and saying that it MUST have been arranged the way it was because the probability of that particular outcome occurring is so astronomically low. It doesn't matter how improbable our existence is. The chance of the world becoming the way it is today could be 1:100000000000000. It doesn't matter. It IS this way. You can't judge the probability of an event after it has happened.

I assume something as beautiful as god has to come under this rule too?

Nope, of course not! GOD doesn't need to be created!

... Whenever someone says this, it's yet another logical fallacy, called "special pleading". Whenever someone points out a flaw in a statement and the person who made it adds additional special constraints to make it possible, that's a fallacy.

 

[ChurchedAtheist]

why did it have to start somewhere...? if scientists thinks the universe is endless then why cant it have existed forever? the universe was endless even before the big bang.

here's the thing I want to know: what caused the big bang?

are there any theories?

 

[Chathurga]

Woah FreePlay you have me confused, I stepped out of Smart Talk about a year ago at this point and when I did you seemed to hold a very different opinion that you do now. :S
What changed?

here's the thing I want to know: what caused the big bang?

are there any theories?

The big bang created time. No. 1 mistake people make, the big bang doesn't have an origin as "origin" was a concept created by the big bang.

 

[ChurchedAtheist]

The big bang created time. No. 1 mistake people make, the big bang doesn't have an origin as "origin" was a concept created by the big bang.

so it came from nothing, and has the same "I don't need an origin! fuck you!" nature of God?

 

[eldiablov]

No it has the "I created the universe and created time so if time didnt exist nothing happened before" nature of science.

 

[Chathurga]

so it came from nothing, and has the same "I don't need an origin! fuck you!" nature of God?

How blas