• Steam recently changed the default privacy settings for all users. This may impact tracking. Ensure your profile has the correct settings by following the guide on our forums.

Introducing points system (EXP) and cross platform leaderboards

x3sphere

Administrator
Staff member
Enforcer Team
I think there are still some Google Play Booster games out there that give non-zero exp values, like e.g. https://www.exophase.com/game/clicker-increasing-the-level-android/achievements/. Maybe, it would make sense to also block all Google Play games with Clicker in the title?
Seems like a good idea. I added any games with Clicker in the title to the exclusion list (will update on the next calculation). If there are any games this removed that should be counted, let me know and I can always whitelist them.
 

CoVarZz

Member
Don't know if speed clicker should count out? Its a long game, if so , thans games with tap or tap tap should be delisted.
 

Username5

New Member
Seems like a good idea. I added any games with Clicker in the title to the exclusion list (will update on the next calculation). If there are any games this removed that should be counted, let me know and I can always whitelist them.
Art Inc Trendy Bussiness Clicker
Axe Clicker
Doomsday Clicker
Human Evolution Clicker Game
Idle Space-Action Clicker
Speed Clicker
Tap Adventure RPG Clicker
Tap My Katamari - Idle Clicker
Time Clickers
.........
is not XP Booster games
 
Last edited:

x3sphere

Administrator
Staff member
Enforcer Team
Art Inc Trendy Bussiness Clicker
Axe Clicker
Doomsday Clicker
Human Evolution Clicker Game
Idle Space-Action Clicker
Speed Clicker
Tap Adventure RPG Clicker
Tap My Katamari - Idle Clicker
Time Clickers
.........
is not XP Booster games
These are now counted again, thanks.
 

NoahG59

New Member

Skumblex

Member
Fast XP google games needs to be taken out , they stille count.
Not sure if this this the best idea, but instead of excluding booster games by name, it might be helpful to do something like this:
For each game, check all the players who completed it. And if the fastest 10% completed in in less than 30min (?) exclude the game.

What do you think?
 

CoVarZz

Member
Yes and no. There are normale games without just tapping to complete onder 30 min. I just think XP games should be counted out.
 

GAMERxSTEPHEN

Well-Known Member
Yea there are so games that can be completed in 20 mins with guides that are not to simple...even though i have played the achievement spamming games and xp games i believe these should be excluded for the exophase xp....but not the overall achievement count
 

x3sphere

Administrator
Staff member
Enforcer Team

Skumblex

Member
I just checked Forza Horizon 3 and I am a little confused by the number of obtainable EXP. Here https://www.exophase.com/game/forza-horizon-3-windows, it says that it is possible to obtain 49,660 EXP via this game. However, there are only 135 achievements and 103 challenges. This means each achievement must give 206 EXP on average to end up with almost 50k EXP. However, I do not see a single one with this value, so I guess there is some kind of bug in the EXP calculation?

Also:
In this game https://www.exophase.com/game/kinect-sports-rivals-xbox/challenges/ we have 26.246 EXP and 60 + 20 achievements/challenges. This leads to an average of 328 EXP, which again does not work out. The most valuable challenge gives only 200 EXP.
In this game https://www.exophase.com/game/xbox-fitness-xbox/achievements/ we have 14.204 EXP and 31 + 18 achievements/challenges. This leads to an average of 290 EXP but only one challenge gives more than 290 EXP.

And the list goes on. Or am I missing something?

These are all games that appear when sorting Xbox One games for total EXP value.
 
Last edited:

x3sphere

Administrator
Staff member
Enforcer Team
I forgot about the Xbox challenges. Should we even count these?

The issue is that there are expired / removed challenges not listed on the page. Forza Horizon 3 for example, has around 500 challenges not listed there. I can fix this, but I don't know if it would be better to remove them from the EXP system altogether - doesn't seem too many people go for the challenges either so they all have higher EXP values than they should. Plus, most of them expire after some point.
 

Skumblex

Member
That makes sense.

Personally I would not count them (you also do not get a gamerscore for them), because I think there is the following problem: Once a challenge goes away, it is not possible for anyone else to obtain it. However, for the calculation of the EXP, the total number of players is used. The latter one increases with time, meaning that expired challenges increase in value over time without necessarily reflecting the average skill level of the player base.
Moreover, challenges that expire shortly after launch are more valuable, since less people already picked up the game. Hence, the 'number of all people beating the challenge before it expires' is smaller and thus -after some time- the EXP value of these challenges become quite large as more players are jumping in.

However, I am not an Xbox player (yet), so maybe other people have a different opinion?
 

Jarzor

New Member
I guess this is the right place to post this:
I never liked that PSN trophy rarity for DLC trophies is calculated individually for each DLC (it makes no sense to me), but now with Experience points it's really bad because it cause PSN to give less points than PC for the same games.
Could you please consider changing the way rarity is calculated for PSN DLC trophies (and any other platform which uses the same way of calculating them)?

- Skyrim (PSN): 1045 points
- Skyrim (PC): 1420 points

Random DLC trophy/achievement:
- Solstheim Explorer (PSN): 64% (12 points)
- Solstheim Explorer (PC): 15% (26 points)
 
Last edited:

Skumblex

Member
I guess this is the right place to post this:
I never liked that PSN trophy rarity for DLC trophies is calculated individually for each DLC (it makes no sense to me), but now with Experience points it's really bad because it cause PSN to give less points than PC for the same games.
Could you please consider changing the way rarity is calculated for PSN DLC trophies (and any other platform which uses the same way of calculating them)?

- Skyrim (PSN): 1045 points
- Skyrim (PC): 1420 points

Random DLC trophy/achievement:
- Solstheim Explorer (PSN): 64% (12 points)
- Solstheim Explorer (PC): 15% (26 points)
I just made the same request yesterday (https://forums.exophase.com/threads/request-change-exp-calculation-of-dlc-trophies.46385/). If we want to discuss this issue here, we can potentially close my post.
 

Skumblex

Member
That makes sense.

Personally I would not count them (you also do not get a gamerscore for them), because I think there is the following problem: Once a challenge goes away, it is not possible for anyone else to obtain it. However, for the calculation of the EXP, the total number of players is used. The latter one increases with time, meaning that expired challenges increase in value over time without necessarily reflecting the average skill level of the player base.
Moreover, challenges that expire shortly after launch are more valuable, since less people already picked up the game. Hence, the 'number of all people beating the challenge before it expires' is smaller and thus -after some time- the EXP value of these challenges become quite large as more players are jumping in.

However, I am not an Xbox player (yet), so maybe other people have a different opinion?
Another reason for neglecting the challengers would be the following: In this thread https://forums.exophase.com/threads/no-points-for-zaccaria-pinball.46323/#post-254339 we still have the discussion if we should cut steam games with a very high EXP value.
Now, if we do not count challenges, there would be an EXP cap on PS4/XBox games of like 10.000 EXP. We could then use this information to find a good/fair cut for Steam games, which should hopefully level the playing field a little bit. Right now Steam is rather dominant in the Leaderboard.
 

x3sphere

Administrator
Staff member
Enforcer Team
I have been experimenting with making some changes to the way EXP is calculated, to better deal with games that have a large amount of achievements. None of this is live yet, just have ran some tests to see how it would impact the totals.

This method is actually borrowed from SteamHunters, so thanks to them for coming up with this. Rather than counting the amount of EXP individually per achievement, the total EXP for each game is calculated from the rarest achievement using its unlock percentage - and then that value is distributed accordingly across all of the game's achievements (the rarest achievement will get the most points)

Spider-Man on PS4 as an example -

The rarest trophy has been earned by 8.96% of players on the site. We use the calculation below to get a total EXP value of 2,391.

(sqrt(100 / UNLOCK_PERCENTAGE) - 1) * 1000 + 50

To break it down, 100 / UNLOCK_PERCENTAGE calculates the worth of the rarest achievement, then the square root of that number is taken to avoid getting inflated values. 1 is subtracted from the result here to avoid very easy games from being worth 1000+ EXP. The final result is multiplied by 1000 + the base EXP value, which is 50.

As another example, Viki Spotter: The Farm on Steam - this game has a large amount of achievements (298) and all can be unlocked very quickly (under an hour).

With the new calculation, it only gets 68 EXP, versus the 2,980 it has now. Given that it can be completed so quickly this more accurately represents the worth of these achievements.

Third example, LOGistICAL on Steam - this game has a very large amount of achievements (9821).

With the new calculation, it only gets 2937 EXP, versus the 252,215 (!) it has now.

So I think this handles with the games that have a large amount of achievements much better, while not taking away from the potential EXP in games that have a more typical list. I think we won't have to devalue specific games with this approach either, aside from some isolated cases - I think the XP boosters on the Google Play should still be completely removed, since the base value of 50 EXP is still too much for those.

Any thoughts on this?
 
Top