Outrageous Religious Beliefs

[Adiuvo]

You can't even be Christian if you don't think the Bible is the word of God

 

[Bill]

I choose to believe in Quantum Physics, so my God (He's mine, not yours, damnit) exists and does not exist at the same time... The ultimate being! =D

 

[PSPHax0r9]

The Ark was actually considered possible by a lot of scientists. Only issue was that it couldn't hold two of every single animal, but it could hold two of every major if it was built to it's maximum size allowable using gopher wood.

lolololol I think we might have a fundie on the boards! If I'm reading that implication correctly, that is.

Also, there seems to be a lot of confusion in this thread. Let me help you all out. "It's" is a contraction that stands for "it is." "Its" is a possessive adjective meaning "of it" or "to it" or "for it." I've seen more misuses of the two in the last 3 pages than on a third grader's first essay.

But um, in terms of the Bible and everything, you can't just look at it as "the word of God" or whatever, you also have to look at it in a historical context. Look at the style of writing and even recording history back then; things were not written, and were not expected to be written, as historically accurate in the sense of getting the facts right. They were usually stories to convey some historical point or fact, or exaggerations of events.

To take the Bible as fact is absolutely hilarious, and goes against any common sense, a slight to religion I would say if you believe that reasoning is a God-given unique gift. I mean, obviously Jesus didn't walk around doing elaborate miracles like raising the dead, just ask any Biblical scholar. It's hard to find the real facts scattered throughout the tales in the Bible, but it isn't impossible. If you really want to learn about Biblical scholarship and actually want to learn what Catholics with half a brain know/preach, Thomas Brokenkotter has a good book.

---------- Post added at 02:08 AM EST ---------- Previous post was at 02:05 AM EST ----------

Unforunately, too many are still stupid, and believe that non-sense actually happend. And even those who don't think that actually happend, still think there's a moral to that story, and the stories that it shares pages with.

No, you're definitely right, the Bible is just a collection of stories with no morals and no connection whatsoever...riiight.

 

[Bill]

People who put down the existence of a God simply because it's "not possible" are too materialistic and can't understand a damn word that comes out of Schrodingers mouth. You just have to face the fact that too many are still stupid

 

[PSPHax0r9]

Spoiler: Luke 14:26-33

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters,yes, even his own life, he can not be my disciple...In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has can not be my disciple."

And why aren't we supposed to take it literal? This is the word of God. He knows what he's saying since he's all powerful and all knowing is he not? I'm sure he could of reworded it to cause less confusion(As he should of known since he's all knowing)...He also should of known people like me would "take it too literal(ie "The wrong way"). Since I'm taking it too literal right?

When people say the "word of God," they can mean inspired by God, interpreted through humans, which means that there is room for error/human addition/distortion. Not that it's God verbatim copying lines into a book, lol.

I'm just saying, how else can we take the verse "Anyone who works Sunday should be stoned to death?" Death means to die. Being stoned means someone has to do it. So essentially it's murder. Or if it's not murder, it still says death. Death means to die. End of story.
If you want another verse here it is. It plainly says death

Spoiler: Exodus 31 verse 15

"For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death. "

I work every Sunday and by Christians not killing me, they are essentially not following the word of God. So what's the point if Christians aren't killing me.( or at least getting someone else to kill me since it doesn't really say who has to do the killing)

Eh, I don't like that translation, I don't know that it's accurate. I think the most correct translation says "will surely be put to death." Which changes the meaning considerably. It just means put some time aside for God, and the "surely be put to death part" is to emphasize how important it is to do so.

EDIT: Oh and the praying part we aren't supposed to take literal either?
What do we take literal then? Sheesh?
Only the stuff that is legal and possible? lol

Why would you not take that literally?

When did this happen? I mean the "no longer in effect" thing. And who said it should no longer be in effect?

It didn't really...It's just that the style of the writings changed considerably from a vengeful God (reflecting how the Jews felt after hundreds of years of abuse) to a loving one, and from general rough stories to more intimate focus on a man considered to be divine in nature.

Oh the verse where it says that "if two people come together and ask for anything in his name. it will happen" thing doesn't work. Which is found in the New Testament... =/

Ya, um, that's not a verse. There is one where it says God/Jesus will present when two or more are gathered, i.e. community is important.

I'm not trying to be an ass or anything. I just want to know if people know this and how they deal with it.

I'm pretty sure people know what goes on in the Bible, but maybe I'm assuming too much.

Since Jesus died. When he died the new law was put into place and the old law was erased. That's why you can pray to God for forgiveness of sins instead of doing the whole offering thing.

Er, not exactly. Just a different perspective of the same topic. Nothing from before is erased or invalidated, just reinterpreted.

Well if you ever have time, just send it to me because I've never heard of this. Thanks for the info.

So Christians are to follow the New Testament now? And everything in the New Testament is still the word of God and all that right??

Kind of, depends how literal you want to be I guess?

---------- Post added at 02:25 AM EST ---------- Previous post was at 02:21 AM EST ----------

Oh, and my favorite part is when something happens in the news that shows extremists doing something... extreme, and people instantly label the whole religion as being that way. I think that's just hilarious.

 

[Adiuvo]

What branch do you follow PSPHaxor?

 

[eighty4]

I think he's Catholic.

 

[Adiuvo]

That's what I was thinking. The things he outlined seems like Catholic beliefs.

 

[%chrono trigger%]

I mean, obviously Jesus didn't walk around doing elaborate miracles like raising the dead, just ask any Biblical scholar. It's hard to find the real facts scattered throughout the tales in the Bible, but it isn't impossible.

Does seem catholic to me. Anyway what is your basis for this statement? How do you know jesus didnt perform miracles? Also im curious because the way you worded the last part seems like you just pick and choose what to believe and manipulate it (nno offense im just trying to understand)

 

[Adiuvo]

I've never liked Catholicism for the very reason, they pick and prod to get facts that support the public view. The only thing the Catholic Church seems to care about now is getting more people to join. Plus there's the obvious strange positions of power they assign, like the Pope, bishops, etc.. None of those have any Biblical relevance.

 

[Zx30]

When people say the "word of God," they can mean inspired by God, interpreted through humans, which means that there is room for error/human addition/distortion. Not that it's God verbatim copying lines into a book, lol.

So how do we know if these people copied what god was trying to interpret into the book? Since we are only human we make errors...and we can lie too..amongst other things..
And I never understood why people at church gave away their money. Seems to me it's just a way to steal peoples money..

Why would you not take that literally?

Because when you pray, nothing happens?...

Ya, um, that's not a verse. There is one where it says God/Jesus will present when two or more are gathered, i.e. community is important.
I'm pretty sure people know what goes on in the Bible, but maybe I'm assuming too much.

Spoiler: John 14:14

Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it

Here's that non existing verse you were talking about lol...

Spoiler: Matthew1 8:19

If two of you agree on Earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my father in heaven

Doesn't work =/

 

[%chrono trigger%]

So how do we know if these people copied what god was trying to interpret into the book? Since we are only human we make errors...and we can lie too..amongst other things..
And I never understood why people at church gave away their money. Seems to me it's just a way to steal peoples money..

Because when you pray, nothing happens?...

Spoiler: John 14:14

Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it

Here's that non existing verse you were talking about lol...

Spoiler: Matthew1 8:19

If two of you agree on Earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my father in heaven

Doesn't work =/

Imo you're missing the point. Just because i ask for say 1000 strippers or bundles of money doesn't mean i get it. That verse isn't about being selfish and getting what i want when i want. Also how do you know praying doesn't work, i mean just because a situation didn't turn out how you wanted it doesn't mean it didn't change. Sometimes we don't understand how he works simple as that (i mean we are just human lol)

 

[Zx30]

Imo you're missing the point. Just because i ask for say 1000 strippers or bundles of money doesn't mean i get it. That verse isn't about being selfish and getting what i want when i want. Also how do you know praying doesn't work, i mean just because a situation didn't turn out how you wanted it doesn't mean it didn't change. Sometimes we don't understand how he works simple as that (i mean we are just human lol)

Even if you pray unselfishly, it won't happen either way.
You could pray for people who are starving around the world to be given food. Completely unselfish on your part, yet it won't happen. By they way, Isn't there a story in the Bible where Jesus feeds a certain hundred people with little amount of food? Correct me if I'm wrong, but its sounds familiar.
Well anyways, why isn't his all powerful ass helping them now? They continue to die and starve yet we think God should give a shit about our life asking for " a raise at work", "hoping your (Insert family member here) gets better", amongst other bullshit while we live in luxury compared to others.
You know why these prays of "asking for a raise" and "people getting better" happen here? Because the chances of it happening here are GREAT. People get raises at work for working there! God didn't give you the raise, your damn boss did. Getting healed wasn't thanks to GOD, it was surgeons and medicine that healed you. It blows my mind, Yet people give the thanks to GOD for helping them live. Come on..
Even Christians go to the hospital. Why the hell would they do that? They have GOD on their side. Just sit at home, pray to God, and go to church. You should be fine right? Praying always works but when it comes to life and death, it's time to visit a hospital. In my opinion, visiting a hospital when you believe ever so much in the power of God and pray is very hypocritical and shows that people have little faith in God when it comes to life and death.

 

[PSPHax0r9]

Does seem catholic to me. Anyway what is your basis for this statement? How do you know jesus didnt perform miracles? Also im curious because the way you worded the last part seems like you just pick and choose what to believe and manipulate it (nno offense im just trying to understand)

My basis? Well, mostly Brokenkotter, he's my favorite Biblical scholar. There are people that work on sifting through the actual facts of the Bible, and they say that the only miracles that might even have some small chance of happening were the healing miracles, although most of those are exaggerated anyway. The one thing that they know is true is the crucifixion, if not for the fact that it would be embarrassing to have your leader crucified and humiliated like that. And I don't pick and choose necessarily what I believe, I just don't subscribe to the very common misunderstandings and misconceptions. Actually, come to think of it, I might ignore some of the stuff. Like Mary being a virgin. That actually is hilarious. It didn't even come about in theology until the mid 300s, because well it probably isn't true.

I've never liked Catholicism for the very reason, they pick and prod to get facts that support the public view. The only thing the Catholic Church seems to care about now is getting more people to join. Plus there's the obvious strange positions of power they assign, like the Pope, bishops, etc.. None of those have any Biblical relevance.

Lol, they do the opposite. Catholic leaders pick and prod and use verses in a way that honestly doesn't seem to mesh with the realities of the world today. The Catholic Church needs to undergo some radical changes from the extremely conservative brand of Catholicism currently being marketed as mainstream, or they'll decline even more rapidly in membership than they are now.

And you're damn right the Church cares about getting people to join, but they're sure doing a shitty job, holding onto flawed theology and even some hateful or ludicrous positions. See: contraceptives, gays, women priests.


And also, the hierarchy of the Church has no Biblical relevance whatsoever (except for one line the last Gospel written that almost implies a hint, AKA it was abused in the past to create a politically powerful position to control the Church). It's all about tradition. Even if that tradition was borne from power-hungry political leaders, mixed with a rapidly growing Church and a need to centralize power. Back when communication wasn't instantaneous, the Church needed a centralized authority to stay consistent. Nowadays, well it's debatable. And hell, I'm a Catholic.

So how do we know if these people copied what god was trying to interpret into the book? Since we are only human we make errors...and we can lie too..amongst other things..

Which is exactly what I just said. It can be the word of God, just copied through imperfect means, (humans) so you're not getting some exact or perfect interpretation.

And I never understood why people at church gave away their money. Seems to me it's just a way to steal peoples money..

How can you give something away, and then say it's been stolen? Pick one. The Church needs money to function, because last time I checked it's a nonprofit organization. The money isn't "stealing," it's for keeping Churches running...

Because when you pray, nothing happens?...

Depends what you consider praying...If it's a deeper connection with God, then maybe your perspective changes, but my philosophy is that there's no Superman intervening to help you out or anything.

Spoiler: John 14:14

Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it

Here's that non existing verse you were talking about lol...

Spoiler: Matthew1 8:19

If two of you agree on Earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my father in heaven

Doesn't work =/

[/quote]Lol, you got me. But once again, obviously that's not meant to be literally true. I mean, come on...

Imo you're missing the point. Just because i ask for say 1000 strippers or bundles of money doesn't mean i get it. That verse isn't about being selfish and getting what i want when i want. Also how do you know praying doesn't work, i mean just because a situation didn't turn out how you wanted it doesn't mean it didn't change. Sometimes we don't understand how he works simple as that (i mean we are just human lol)

I like that, I would say I agree with that statement.

Even if you pray unselfishly, it won't happen either way.
You could pray for people who are starving around the world to be given food. Completely unselfish on your part, yet it won't happen.

Yeah, because through simple observation you can see that that verse obviously isn't literally true...which is...obvious? I don't know what else you want here.

By they way, Isn't there a story in the Bible where Jesus feeds a certain hundred people with little amount of food? Correct me if I'm wrong, but its sounds familiar.

Yeah, but it's one of those things that wasn't written with the intention of being pure fact...

Well anyways, why isn't his all powerful ass helping them now? They continue to die and starve yet we think God should give a shit about our life asking for " a raise at work", "hoping your (Insert family member here) gets better", amongst other bullshit while we live in luxury compared to others.
You know why these prays of "asking for a raise" and "people getting better" happen here? Because the chances of it happening here are GREAT. People get raises at work for working there! God didn't give you the raise, your damn boss did. Getting healed wasn't thanks to GOD, it was surgeons and medicine that healed you. It blows my mind, Yet people give the thanks to GOD for helping them live. Come on..
Even Christians go to the hospital. Why the hell would they do that? They have GOD on their side. Just sit at home, pray to God, and go to church. You should be fine right? Praying always works but when it comes to life and death, it's time to visit a hospital. In my opinion, visiting a hospital when you believe ever so much in the power of God and pray is very hypocritical and shows that people have little faith in God when it comes to life and death.

Er...no. Maybe some fundamental Christian who actually believes that God will hand them everything on a platter and intervene in the world just to help them might do that. I think you're nitpicking, trying to interpret everything as literally as possible in order to make things seem more ridiculous.

 

[Zx30]

more ridiculous.

So you agree that the bible is ridiculous? Since I'm trying to make it "more ridiculous" Lol

 

[PSPHax0r9]

So you agree that the bible is ridiculous? Since I'm trying to make it "more ridiculous" Lol

Yes. Taken at face value, the Bible is absolutely ridiculous. A magical zombie guy with superpowers goes around doing huge miracles. People live hundreds of years and make crazy sacrifices and are stricken down by a vengeful deity.

Which is why it was never, ever, intended to be taken at face value.

 

[Zx30]

Yes. Taken at face value, the Bible is absolutely ridiculous. A magical zombie guy with superpowers goes around doing huge miracles. People live hundreds of years and make crazy sacrifices and are stricken down by a vengeful deity.

Which is why it was never, ever, intended to be taken at face value.

LOL on the bold part.

But how do you know it was never intended to be taken seriously? Who said that?
Or how can you tell..

 

[PSPHax0r9]

LOL on the bold part.

But how do you know it was never intended to be taken seriously? Who said that?

Look at the writing style at the time. The historical context and common practices. It's like when they would write that Nero would have sex with all three of his sisters, and ate his baby that he gave one of them out of her stomach. All they wanted to say was "this guy really sucked as an emperor." Not, "this guy loves incest."

 

[Zx30]

Look at the writing style at the time. The historical context and common practices. It's like when they would write that Nero would have sex with all three of his sisters, and ate his baby that he gave one of them out of her stomach. All they wanted to say was "this guy really sucked as an emperor." Not, "this guy loves incest."

So can't God just change the words on all the Bibles so they make sense?
or are at least easier to comprehend?

 

[PSPHax0r9]

So can't God just change the words on all the Bibles so they make sense?
or are at least easier to comprehend?

Erm, no? Like I said, written/described by humans, so obviously will not be exact or whatever. I think the whole point is that although there are some very basic universal morals, ultimately morality is relative and it is for each person to interpret the Bible and the world around them the best way they can. It's different for each person. The Church can try to help and be there, but that doesn't mean that it's always right or that it's right for every person or situation. There's even a sentence in the Catechisms of the Catholic Church that says that ultimately, the person should do what they feel is good, regardless of others. Which is kind of funny because it almost negates the Church. But um, yea, I guess the short answer is no.