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Outrageous Religious Beliefs

Bill

Bill

New Member
Why does everybody automatically believe that God interferes with the world? Free will ring a bell? And also, giving free will to humans means giving up the power to be all knowing over human actions. Inherent Omniscience. This makes the whole God thing fit very nicely with Mr. Quantum Happiness.

Just my 4 cents.
 
B

BlackSheep

Active Member
How will "we" ever exsist with out a god? What would of made this universe?? Yes there is evolution but its a beauty of god which he gives us to survive but we didnt evole from apes.
I remember during WWII all the crosses with jesus cring blood. Mary on a tortila.
 
ilyace

ilyace

Member
yo! blacksheep said:
How will "we" ever exsist with out a god? What would of made this universe?? Yes there is evolution but its a beauty of god which he gives us to survive but we didnt evole from apes.
I remember during WWII all the crosses with jesus cring blood. Mary on a tortila.
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Think about the opposite way as well. What makes a god necessary to live? What makes god necessary to create a universe?
 
M

madsoul

Member
yo! blacksheep said:
How will "we" ever exsist with out a god? What would of made this universe?? Yes there is evolution but its a beauty of god which he gives us to survive but we didnt evole from apes.
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i respect your opinion. but, damn. please argument for your thoughts. why do you believe this? what is god? how do you define god? if god is the force of nature then yes, god exists. if god is an intelligent creature up in the sky then no.

try putting the word "god" in a more reasonable position based on the knowlegde we have today compared to before. god is the reason we are here for you. then what is god? for me, god would be fucking awsome if he came up with such a complex and amazing thing as evulotion. arent that even more magical then the silly story about that god created man of his own image bla bla bla? please try to put god into modern science. and you will see that it wont fit in. its out dated.
 
Joey

Joey

New Member
PSPHax0r9 said:
Which is why it was never, ever, intended to be taken at face value.
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If that's the case, then it has no use. Even taken as just a moral compass, it's more harmful than helpful.

Once again, if it's the word of god, then all of it is valid, which means everything with in it are morally valid in gods eyes. But if you choose to actively ignore parts of it (like the endorsements of violence, and slavery), then all of a sudden, it's falable. Something God isn't... Which means it's not the word of god. And at that point, why give it more consideration than Dr. Phil's latest book?

Either that, or you're saying that something that's good enough for God isn't good enough for you. And who are you to have higher standards than god?

I just don't understand why belief in a god is the point from which we start, and we must prove our way away from it. If the bible was never written, or if it wasn't forced into our minds during our adolecence, when we don't have the ability to rationalize, and are liable to believe in Santa Clause, or an egg laying rabbit, then would the idea of God even exist? Atleast in a mainstream way? I realize the idea of God existed before christianity, but it manifested it's self during the lowest times of humanity. During the dark ages when intelligence was looked down upon... Hell it kind of feels like that now... It's no wonder we live in a world were George Bush can get elected. I don't know, something tells me if the Pegans of the past had the scientific advancements we have today, they too would have given up their tribal beliefs for what they could actually see with their own two eyes.

Science isn't infalable, and it's forever changing and evolving, that's what makes it so great. With Religion, you have to ignore your ability to rationalize, and stick with idea's that people two thousand years ago, who didn't have the info we had, came up with. And who knows what their motives were. Who's to say everybody who wrote passages in the bible were always interested in good, and not in what was good for them? Instilling the fear of god in a time of ignorance is a powerful tool. If you want people who can't read to act a certain way, what better way than to present them with scripture, and claim it to be the word of a God who will punish them if they don't follow it?

And you want to know what's the best thing about Science? It has room for the existance of an omnipresent being. Maybe no what Christianity or Islam may spell out, but if the evidence presents it's self, it can be amended. If you want to believe there's a god, then gather and present your evidence. Science is about getting a better understanding of our world and existance. Religion is about telling other how they should live, and if they don't agree, they'll suffer for it. It's non-inclusive, and anti-progress.
 
H

HEN-A

Contributer
I dont agree one bit.....The Bible was not written to control anybody as it was written "I have laid before you two paths,Life and Death but I would rather you choose life and have eternal life..."

God is only trying to help us choose the right path when we live our lives but unfortunately certain people have come to the conclusion that Christians are trying to control others when they try and "spread the word of God".If you notice through the Bible God never forced accepting him down peoples throat which it is true some argue that it was because people did not accept Christ he caused the great flood,but it was because of mankinds sins and un repentance that the flood was caused.He gave them a choice either come and serve him and walk the path of Life which leads to Eternal Life,or walk down the Patch Death which only leads to Eternal Suffering which is what they chose to do.

Yes God asked the disciples and others to go preach his name among thousands.But that was not shove religion down their throats but so they could here the word and make the choice of rather to walk the Path of Life or the Path of Death.After that is done, anybody who did not believe cannot come back and say nobody told them about Jesus and God as they were told by the disciples,mosed,John the baptist etc.
 
eldiablov

eldiablov

Contributor
HEN-A said:
I dont agree one bit.....The Bible was not written to control anybody as it was written "I have laid before you two paths,Life and Death but I would rather you choose life and have eternal life..."
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I stopped reading after this as it's flawed. The bible is basically "do what I say and you'll go to a magic place where you wont live forever in a pit of fire"
 
Zx30

Zx30

Beto
Exactly. It IS basically telling you that you have to follow all these rules and shit or you'll go to hell. And that's one way people get sucked in Christianity. They get scared and start believing in hell so they start to attend church.

One example is a friend of mine was going out with this other friend of mine for a long time. They are both girls so they are both lesbians. They were always having a grand fucking ol' time. Out of the fucking blue, her mom starts telling her to change or she's going to go to hell.(hard core christian)
She got scared it seems and now goes to church on a regular basis and broke my friend's heart. She left her.(The one with the christian mom)
 
Bill

Bill

New Member
I think there is some sort of "God" that exists, but not in the way any of these religions think. I have the same belief Einstein did: There is probably a god, but it doesn't bother too much with the lives of humans. The universe is great and awesome, and there are so many complications that can arise based on it's very existence, and I think this "God" works to keep it all together. Or maybe "God" does nothing at all but simply exist. And where's my proof? Well, it's a mathematical possibility, and that's all I need. But does it affect me weather this "God" exists? Not really, so I try not to let it make my head hurt.
 
F

FreePlay

Member
seriously though.

1. the Bible? don't make me laugh. the Bible isn't even good as a moral compass. the Bible promotes slavery, even going so far as telling you who you can enslave, how much to charge when you sell slaves, and how to mark your slaves as your property (i.e. by holding their ear up to your door and driving an awl through it). besides... is something good because God says so, or is it good and God just happens to tell you it's good? if it's good because God says so, he can change his mind about what's good at any time; and if it's good and he just tells you about it, he's not relevant to morality. so either God makes shit up as he goes along, or he's irrelevant. in either case, you can't have an objective moral standard by basing your morals on god. so you might as well just figure it out yourself.

2. free will? lol. unless you begin with the assumption that the supernatural is real, there is no free will. there is nothing magical about the particles in a brain that make it capable of altering the laws of nature in such a way that it can really affect the future. we might have the illusion of free will - that is, we think we're making choices - but the choices we make are really the only ones we could make. unless you start with the idea that you can magically affect reality with your mind, there is no real free will. that doesn't mean we're excused for our actions; just that the particles that make us are just as set in their courses as any others. society can only stay coherent and cohesive if we 'pretend' that free will is real. and yes, I realize that, as I type this, there is no other way that I could have typed this. and that doesn't bother me, because I still feel like I'm making real choices. (and no, quantum physics still doesn't allow us to make truly free choices.)

3. blessed art thou among men, Joey. honk, honk.

4. your reading assignment for the day: Lost Christianities by Bart D. Ehrman. Learn about the Bible. Learn what it really is. It ain't no "word of God", kids.

Faith is weak. Reason is strong. HAIL FREEPLAY.
 
explosions

explosions

Member
FreePlay said:
and yes, I realize that, as I type this, there is no other way that I could have typed this. and that doesn't bother me, because I still feel like I'm making real choices. (and no, quantum physics still doesn't allow us to make truly free choices.)
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you....you didn't bother to capitalize the first word in every sentence. much like I've been doing for the past week. I'm in awe from the truth showing itself to me. it's not a choice I've been making, it's English falling apart.
 
F

FreePlay

Member
I try to capitalize as little as possible because I type so much at my job that my left pinkie is sore. I hate the left shift key with a passion. it makes me cramp up and want to hurt something soft and innocent.
 
LocutusEstBorg

LocutusEstBorg

Active Member
FreePlay said:
2. free will? lol. unless you begin with the assumption that the supernatural is real, there is no free will. there is nothing magical about the particles in a brain that make it capable of altering the laws of nature in such a way that it can really affect the future. we might have the illusion of free will - that is, we think we're making choices - but the choices we make are really the only ones we could make. unless you start with the idea that you can magically affect reality with your mind, there is no real free will. that doesn't mean we're excused for our actions; just that the particles that make us are juts as set in their courses as any others. society can only stay coherent and cohesive if we 'pretend' that free will is real. and yes, I realize that, as I type this, there is no other way that I could have typed this. and that doesn't bother me, because I still feel like I'm making real choices. (and no, quantum physics still doesn't allow us to make truly free choices.)
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I've been trying to coin this into a simple explanation for non-logical people to understand but I failed.

Yes, everything that we do is a direct consequence of the laws of physics (and other laws) that act on the atoms and particles, since the beginning of the universe. Even if you think "should I do this or that, and make a decision", your hesitation was also predetermined from "the beginning" and the result of your decision also predetermined.

Given sufficient information, we can calculate what happens at ANY point in the future.
 
LocutusEstBorg

LocutusEstBorg

Active Member
explosions said:
If this is true, what determines what I do, when it occurs, and how I do it?
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Every law of nature since the beginning of time. But you can safely narrow it down to a relatively isolated system like the planet Earth or every place you've been to or seen on TV and all your experiences when it comes to determining human decisions. These things formed the current arrangement of atoms in your brain, which caused your "intelligence" to take the decision. The decision is dynamic from the brain's point of view, but the input variables to your "intelligence" from outside are still predetermined by the external system as a whole.

This is what he meant by illusion of free will. Your intelligence IS calculating the decision in real time based on dynamic variables using what ever algorithm, but it doesn't know the variables are predetermined.
 
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